I felt that way at first for me. Then I persevered, and figured out that…completing those workouts doesn’t kill me.
…but it takes everything out of me to complete them. We’re talking closed eyes, swear pouring down the face, open mouth breathing, maybe some drooling but who cares, no ability to track any “entertainment” you might be watching or listening to, and summoning all the willpower you have to just turn those pedals and keep going.
…and then you do it again, and again, and again.
Depending on how in control of myself I was through it all, I’m always rating VO2 max workouts as “max effort” or “very hard”. Usually the former.
Once I knew what a completed VO2 workout felt like, I became motivated to mentally and physically prepare for it in advance. All that jazz about good rest, good food, etc., starts to make a lot more sense. No way could I do on one short sleep and hungry.
I don’t think many athletes enjoy long VO2max workouts. Doubly so, because VO2max workouts almost always should be very hard and push you close to your limits.
Quite generally, I found it very useful to figure out whether I bail on a workout because it is physically too hard or mentally too hard. Sometimes I can very easily tell my mental game was not on point, physiologically, I was fine. How does that feel for you?
Here are a few things that help me:
Use resistance mode to avoid the erg spiral of death.
Think of long VO2max workouts as something that trains you mentally as much as physically. Hence, being well-rested, having had a good night of sleep all helps.
If you can only complete the last interval at best power, give it your best. (That’ll only work in resistance mode.)
Play stupid games with yourself. My favorites are endlessly computing gear ratios (seriously) and changing up the cadence after some time interval (e. g. after every minute).
Have you worked above threshold in this plan so far? I find I need to have a few over/unders or supra-threshold workouts under my belt before launching into VO2s. Also, as others have said, don’t do these in ERG mode or consider lowering the power target.
ETA I really like doing these using incline mode in Zwift, something about chasing other riders that makes them go by quicker.
Others are right about how to approach these workouts (i.e. higher cadence, resistance mode, focus on max effort not power, etc).
You started with TR a few weeks ago but what did your training look like before? IMO, unless you were already doing structured training then a couple weeks into training is too early to be hitting super hard VO2 workouts. Spend another couple blocks on SS and threshold before doing VO2. Not only will you be more familiar with structured training but you will physiologically adapt to VO2 workouts better once you push your aerobic fitness higher with SS and FTP work. You’ll also be more fit so you can do more VO2 work in the actual block without blowing up.
Honest question: to what degree it “wrong” to do VO2 in ERG? I feel like it is a valid approach. I’ve got a Zwift cog without those little blips for fake gearing, so I can’t ride in resistance mode (at least that is my understanding).
I’m curious what TR’s take on this is. I suspect a huge chunk of people ride in ERG mode only.
I do VO2 in ERG and if I fail a workout…I fail the workout. I figure that with ERG mode, I won’t be over-reaching the early intervals (e.g. with a “max effort”). Generally, if I am rested and well fed, I can complete the entire set of VO2 intervals, just barely.
This is another case of the complexity of talking “VO2 Max” workouts vs. the training zone labeled VO2. VO2 Max workouts should be focused on that extremely difficult “fish out of water breathing” type effort. That’s completely different than spending a little time above Threshold. In the case of the OP, the assigned workout was one far above FTP, so you’re seeing a lot of comments about focusing on maximizing the effort to that extremely hard area, which is a lot harder to do in erg because you can still be in that suffering zone and yet be below the workout target percentage. This can be achieved in erg by adjusting the bias manually during the workout, but it’s a whole lot easier to do by shifting while not in erg.
While I agree with the reasons many recommend not using ERG for VO2, I still often use it when I’m on the trainer and it is fine. Definitely keep in mind the physiological state your trying to get into and adjust the power target up or down as needed, but it still works, IMO.
Nothing inherently wrong if the target power is adequate for you. Regarding Zwift you can use incline mode and adjust the resistance with the virtual shifters.
Resistance mode and keep your cadence high. It’ll make sure the effort is more aerobic than muscle endurance focused. Hit as high a wattage as you can manage for the interval length and don’t fret too much if the power drops. Shift if you need to to keep your cadence steady. Pace yourself. This is a good way to find your 2 minute power as well so when you see these in the future they won’t be as daunting.
Hate to say it but the best way to “learn” how to do VO2 is to… do them. You need to teach your body to deal with the pain and suffer and where the limits are. That said, as someone who has coached many athletes new to sport, jumping in at 3 minute intervals sounds brutal. As a cross country running coach we start by doing strides, then add in hills and then start off with 30 second to 60 second intervals. Most new to intensity can hold a decent intensity for that duration but struggle with the number of reps. We keep that number low to start (4-6) and then add as fitness increases. In my experience it is something you need to build into.
I think you are on the right track here. Find an alternate with shorter reps and longer recovery.
I also want to +1 the idea of doing these in standard/resistance mode. Don’t worry if you don’t hit your target (or over-do it), just do what you can do.
I’ve actually been doing FTP builder workouts on zwift for 7 or 8 years, but for some reason this time round the severity of the 1st vo2 block combined (i think) with me being under the weather & ERG mode was a non starter. I’ve just done Monadnock -2, using erg mode for the first minute of each vo2 block and resistance for the 2nd minute, and it worked a treat. These were slightly less brutal though, which helped.
As with most workout types there’s nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with doing it in erg. But you lose the ability to naturally regulate the workout. In SS or FTP workouts you can use the + or - buttons to adjust but you’re not gonna be doing that during VO2.
Like in OPs case, he was given a workout of like 5x3 @ 121% or something. This was too hard. But if instead he did it in resistance mode and just did 5x3 as hard as he could and it turned out to be 115% but he was still hitting the ‘fish out of water’ feeling then he completed the workout. But if he was stuck in Erg he would have ‘failed’. Same if your power drops throughout a workout. You might be able to do 120% for the first couple intervals but only hit 115% for the last couple. In Erg this would be a failure when really all you might be doing is cutting your workout short.
If on the other hand he was given a workout at 115% and he can do it at 120% then Erg has held him back. It might have still been ‘hard’ but he would have been missing out on what he may have gotten by going truly as hard as he could go.
No if you’re someone who falls well outside the bell curve, then TR may never give you a suitable VO2 workout. For myself, I would do a VO2 workout at ~470W with a ~330W FTP. TR is never ever going to give me a 6x3 @ 145% workout. So I’m always going to have to go out on my own off of erg mode.
Lastly, it doesn’t allow for natural boosts in power. The last couple years I’ve done a concentrated VO2 block each January. And each time the power I can put out for the first ~3 workouts is nearly 10% lower than what I do for the next 3. Idk exactly what causes that jump but it’s happened both times. If I was in Erg I wouldn’t have been able to see that same natural progression that I did by just going all out every time.
I think you’ve nailed it… erg mode is inflexible, for some people in some circumstances this is not ideal. For me doing 2 min all out efforts, my watts are up and down like a seismograph. ERG is also very unforgiving when you ease off for a second… putting you in the death spiral or whatever it’s called. By switching off erg when needed I could complete the workout even if it was at slightly lower watts.
Where does the idea that a TR VO2 workout is “max effort” come from? I don’t see it in the workout descriptions, in TR docs, etc.
I ask because it isn’t something we see with training in the other zones. E.g. you don’t have to ride at the absolute top of the limit of your Z2 to see Z2 improvements, etc.
I’ve heard this “max effort” idea on the Emperical Cycling podcast, but I get the idea that the philosophies and intent of the workouts differ there…for example, they’d prefer their athletes avoid ERG mode entirely, and design their VO2 workouts with the “full gas” approach in mind.
The way the two different philosophies get there is different but once TR has your VO2max ability dialled in then I think they are pretty much the same thing - or at least as close as makes no difference.
I do all my vo2max workouts in ERG mode, but only because I have full confidence in the workouts that the TR system is picking for me.
I very rarely fail an interval but also never want to do another one
So in my view you can do either, it would take a lot to move me off ERG mode, but resistance mode is probably the simplest.
In terms of “max effort” – then I think the workout as a whole should be close to “max effort” - but if the first interval was genuinely “max effort” then you wouldn’t be able to do a second one any time soon….
High cadence, ragged breathing, “go max" workouts are specifically targeting your left ventricle (in the main). The aim is to get more oxygen to your legs by sending more blood there. Generally, the power output that results is in the 110% to 140% of FTP range, depending on interval length, rider phenotype and motivation/fatigue.
These workouts don’t typically need/have a power target (maybe a broad range) because the power is secondary to the physiological state being sought. You’re deliberately being inefficient.
However, if you have a bunch of 4 minute climbs to do in your target event, you also need to practise pushing max watts for those durations. Obviously, these will be performed very differently, usually at your preferred climbing cadence and at a much steadier - and hopefully higher - power output. I think for this type of workout, if you prefer erg mode then it’s a viable alternative.
Not really. There are plenty of TR “VO2” workouts that are at a low percentage of Z5 and are not meant to induce the “fish out of water” state. There’s a big difference. Doing workouts at 105% FTP are not meant to induce that incredibly difficult heart pumping and can’t breathe stimulus. I don’t see any problem doing these in erg (other than that my knees don’t personally like erg).
On the other hand, if you’re going for that “do every interval at approximately the max you can sustain in order to adapt your VO2 capabilities” kind of effort, keeping a high cadence and watching your HR is a much better indicator, and will lead to power going up and down as needed to sustain the efforts, which you can’t easily do in erg. Also, in erg, a lot of people try to muscle through to hold the watts, rather than focus on holding the HR, at which point you’re doing a power zone 5 effort, not a heart rate VO2 one.
I don’t use TR to train but fwiw I do VO2 max outdoors and just ride maximal 5x4 min without looking at power. I have a screen on my garmin with time and cadence (I sometimes get too low in cadence so I find it helpful). I just go til I’m breathing fish out of water and hold on.
tbh I don’t think I could mentally do that indoors…my brain would explode…outside it’s kinda fun to propel yourself.
I look at power later on for the hell of it.
sometimes on my 4th interval I’m not even at threshold but i’m breathing like crazy…so I dunno if I’m not getting benefit or what. but I just find it mentally easier to “do my best” than try to hit a number…cause day to day, my best is my best…but who knows if i’m up for hitting a number.
anyway, I’m also not a racer or super powerful…but the numbers trend up when I do these for a few weeks…especially the first two intervals.
