As topic says. I really have a VERY hard time with those workouts and I would really like some inputs on how to improve those, as this apparently is my weakness by far according to AI:
Today it was worktout “Three Sisters -1”. I was motivated, I was fresh and well recovered. Everything was good. Workout consists of intervals at 9 mins with 3x 2min U and 1min O. After first set I was smashed. After beginning of second set I was on the floor….
I cant believe why I’m struggling with this so badly. I can do sweetspot and vo2Max/anaerobic much easier.
My max heartrate is around 182bpm. My threshold HR on a VERY good day based on a 20 min ftp test is 172bpm. As you can see on my picture I peaked at 178bpm on my 3rd “Over” in my first set.
In my own opinion I think I’m good at following my plan, so I would really hope I would automatically get better at these workouts, but something is holding me back. Last “successful” OU threshold workout I did was “Anna” here it is “only” 6min per interval: 2x2min Under/1min Over. Here I peaked at 174. I guess its the same as when I look at Three Sistsers on the second O. So my problem is the 3rd UO. Heartrate just keep on climbing and I pop.
Is it “Mr. autodetect FTP“giving me a too high FTP? I have been on same FTP more or less for years, so I think if I get this one solved I have a chance on progressing further.
What do the rest of you do with these workouts and how easy are they for you compared to my experience?
What do you rate the workouts when you fail them? I’m guessing if you constantly tell TR that it was just an off day then the Ai is more likely to give you similar workouts and have you try again.
Stuggling to get threshold PLs above 3 is to me a clear indication that your FTP might be set too high.
Today I rated it as all out due to stress/fatique.
I try to trust the Adapative training. “Anna” which I completed was a “3.0”. little sisters here is “3.3”. So next week I’ll perhaps have to complete the “Anna” workout again and next again I’m in the same situation as today, unless something magically has happened
Isn’t it stress/motivation that’s one of the alternatives? To me, rating it as cut short due to (external) stress and lack of motivation indicates that you believe you should be able to do the workout. Your head just wasn’t in it on this particular day.
For me these types of OU workouts, where you also have long Z2 parts, are probably the easiest threshold workouts. I believe it’s partly due to how I handle the Z2 parts, but also due to the mental aspect of riding near threshold for longer periods. I find it much easier mentally to do 3x12 min OU than 6x10 at 97-98% or 5x11 hard starts with 30s at 140% going straight into 95%. All of which have the same PL rating.
Could this still be the case with anaerobic being a strength?
I agree you should be able to hold your FTP for longer than 9 mins, so this does look like a high FTP, just wasn’t then expecting anaerobic to be a strength.
I consider O/U workouts to be a great data point for properly setting FTP. For me, better than a ramp test or 20 minute test. Overs should be a slow death, but the unders should be a slow retreat from the light. If you are reasonably well rested and struggling with O/U workouts, there is a reasonable chance that your threshold is set a bit high.
Certainly not by the end of the last interval. During the overs, HR will drift up in a deliberate pace, the unders would have it ticking down slowly. But as fatigue builds while you progress through the intervals, overall HR will be trending higher for any given effort. Not unlike doing a 1 hour threshold effort where HR starts fairly stable and slowing trends up as time goes on.
Given your anaerobic and sweet spot progression levels, it doesn’t look like you spend as much time in threshold/vo2 max ranges - is that correct? If so, I could understand why this workout, which is primarily threshold/vo2 range, would be a struggle.
99% of my workouts are endurance, threshold, and vo2 max, so those are the ranges I do great in. I am solid at anaerobic due to all my strength training, but would probably struggle/be very miserable with a lot of sweet spot/tempo workouts.
You might be on to something here. JUST started “build” phase last week so have only done 1 anaerobic and 1 vo2max workout. Since Spring when I started TR again it has mainly been sweetspot and the OU threshold. Although those Threahold workouts have always been a pain for me.
So it might be that I just need more Vo2max training before I can handle the OU workload better thanks
Exactly this. Threshold should be used to set your zones around threshold (basically SST and ftp intervals) but should not be what you use to set VO2 max, anaerobic etc.
If 10m of threshold is a struggle (Slightly below/slightly above is still threshold) you are either very fatigued or have an over estimated ftp.
And also did first anaerobic Workout. This week From 1.0 to 7.
So I have only been doing SS and Threshold work until now and have quite a few failed OU workouts in my history hence I write here and ask for others experiences with them. If they really are supposed to be a pain and only achievable on an extremely good day or perhaps AI FTP detection are not working for me?
Depends on the workout but, in my opinion, FTP workouts should only feel difficult near the end of the last interval or two. That is not to say it should ever feel easy but it should definitely not be a struggle, especially so for the first and shorter intervals.
If one cannot do something like 2x20 near their ftp when reasonably fresh you probably have an ftp that is too high.
thanks