Finished SPB HV last week. PolHV build provided a strong base for this, and I felt adequately prepared going into SPBHV. I ran into some overreaching issues in the very last week of SPB and transitioned into the recovery week a few days early, but this was more due to working overnights and not sleeping enough to do two more difficult workouts that week.
As of last week at the end of SPB, my performance numbers on bike are a max 1x5 min power of ~365w (345w at the end of PolHV build), I can do 4x5min@330w, and 6x5min@320w. My ramp test “FTP” was 295w, up from 285w. My power @ VT1 HR was unchanged. My actual 1hr power is 260w, up maybe 10w.
This large gap between my 5min power and 60min power makes setting training zones using FTP rather difficult. When doing VO2 and Z2 work, I need to use the zones set by an FTP of 295w. If I use my 1-hr power as my FTP, that puts my 4x5min VO2 interval sessions @ 127% FTP, and there are no TR workouts that are this difficult. If also makes my Z2 workouts too easy, such that parts that are ~75% are well below my VT1 HR. However, then I need to use 260w as my FTP to do any appropriate threshold or SS work. This is vaguely annoying.
This large discrepancy between 5min power and 1hr power I think was exacerbated by doing SPB after PolHV build.
In the future, my feeling right now is the SSB HV would be a better next block after PolHV. I don’t think I would recommend moving to SBP after Pol build. I had avoided going into SSB this this year because the sample schedule shown in TR when I was deciding what to do after Pol was too easy and only had short SS intervals. I realized later that this was because my SS PL was very low because I hadn’t done any. So I associated my recent 1hr time trial effort with a random similar corresponding workout in TR, got my threshold and SS levels up, and all of a sudden SSBHV looked like a real plan.
Just so I understand, are you saying you should have done POL → SSB → SPB? I had something similar laid out but substituted POL (base) for SSB since I enjoyed it so much the first time and got good results. I may jump into SSB-II-MV instead of SusPB.
Yeah, I think if I was doing this again I would have gone from the 8wk PolHV to SSBHV (though as mentioned, modified as needed). Mostly because my 1h power was already such a low percent of my 5min power by the end of Pol.
Based on my riding type (ultraendurance), I don’t know if I’d do SPB again after a sweet spot block though. I’d be tempted to just go back and do more Pol.
FTP is NOT your 1 hour power. Unfortunately this is a persistent myth.
Threshold is a physiological state, where your body clears lactate at about the same rate it produces it. Most people can sustain this for 25-45 minutes. If you train threshold specifically (eg. the 40km TT plan), then you can extend this towards 60 minutes, but most trained cyclists from other disciplines cannot maintain threshold for 60 minutes. Don’t feel bad about this - it is completely normal.
It might be worth trying the 20 minute test, and seeing what that comes up with as compared with the ramp test.
That’s what I did: I did a 6-week polarized block before starting a training plan with SSB in the beginning. I really like the results. The polarized plan really upped my mental game, but I saw very small gains in terms of FTP (but I wasn’t expecting much here, it wasn’t why I did the polarized block).
I’ve got a question about the polarised plans and thought this would be the right place to ask:
I’ve been following the mid volume base plan with one added endurance ride for 3 weeks now. If the weather allows, I’m doing all my workouts outside. To reach a spot where I’m able to execute the prescribed intervals, I have to add roughly 1 - 1,5 hours of riding to the workouts. This, together with my added endurance ride, screws up the polarization of the plan. It’s now more like 95% easy and 5% hard. I don’t think that’s a major issue during base building, but looking forward I might miss some intensity.
So should I make the hard days harder (more or longer intervals) or add one day with intervals? I don’t really fancy switching to HV. I feel like I’m handling my training load very well with two days of the bike.
I wouldn’t worry about it but if you wanted extra Z3 (in the polarised zone model) work then I’d swap out the interval workout(s) for longer versions so one with six intervals instead of four.
Polarised training came about because when the training routines of pro riders was looked at it was seen that they actually did a small proportion of intensity. The point that was missed was that the pros rode twenty or thirty hours a week so couldn’t do half of that as sprint/VO2max work without burning out. More simply: as the volume ridden increases, the proportion of intense sessions has to decrease even if the actual time spent in those intense sessions stays the same. I.e. it’s two hours intensity plus whatever endurance you can fit it.
You don’t need to change anything unless you want to do more Z3.
95 / 5% (Z1 / Z3) is a perfectly acceptable polarised training distrubution.
Side note: 80/20 training is NOT necessarily the same thing as polarised training although you can do a Z1 / Z3 80/20 distrubtion. There are plenty of 80/20 training plans that are not really polarised where the 80 is Z1 and the 20% is tempo (Pol Z2)
I wouldn’t worry about it, it is not going to make any difference.
Thank you for the great advice! I will keep on doing what I’ve been doing, maybe pick some longer alternative workouts for the high intensity sessions.
@Pbase Yeah I’m in an incredibly lucky situation right now. I’m just between semesters at the university and besides my side job I’ve got pretty much all the time in the world to ride my bike. So currently its more about how much I can handle instead of how much I can do.
80/20 polarized refers to sessions, not time in zone
If you do 5 workouts a week, 4 will be easy endurance and 1 will be hard (Threshold/ VO2)
time in zone, can be 90/10 or 95/5 or something like that.
If you do 10 hours a week, riding at Z3 (polarized) for 2 hours is unachievable.
a 1 hour VO2 workout is not 1 hour at VO2, its a bit of warm up, then maybe 5x5 at VO2 with recovery in between and a warm down. So “only” 25 minutes riding at VO2, but the whole of the workout is considered as the “hard” workout.
I’ll share my experience from doing 8 weeks of polarized base - maybe someone will have a good advice on what to do next.
I used to be at 4.5-4.8 w/kg up until 2019, then life took over and right now I’m slowly getting back into shape. Main event in August - 6 day cross country stage race in Mongolia, the key to the event will be endurance and repeatability day to day.
I started the training pretty late this year and just finished the base phase, I used to follow the SSB plans but decided to experiment a bit and do a polarized plan, mostly just to change the stimulus as I’ve spent countless hours in SS in the past and returns were diminishing.
I feel like my FTP did not go up all that much but I sure raised my endurance power! Last Sunday was the last day of the plan, of course I did not stick to recovery and went on a ride with a much stronger friend. The ride was 5h, to my surprise I nearly smashed my all time best of 3h power - I had 230w avg, my PB is 234W from a road race years ago. I was 10kg lighter back then so it’s not a fair comparison, but getting so close to my best endurance power is very encouraging.
Now I’m in a pickle - I was going to follow a standard Build plan but seeing the results from POL Base I’m thinking of following a POL Build instead. After all my A event this year will be 5-6 hours a day for a week so a big endurance engine will come in handy. Any thoughts?
I sometimes think there is too much emphasis on rising the FTP. I see on the socials, bumps of 2 watts being celebrated as if they won a grand tour stage race. For TR as a company, it’s far more interesting to sell a product whereby you can measure and proof your product is working. As I get older the more I believe you should build your engine over years. Not over the span of 6 or 8 weeks plan X or Z. But that is not sexy, as people don’t have the patience anymore and want quick fixes. Btw, what is that FTP bump telling you? Have you learned a trick and can perform it well? I had better days on the bike with a lower FTP compared to days where I had a higher FTP.
I’m leaning towards the POL plans with adding endurance rides to even make the POL more POL. From listening to Attia, Seiler, etc it’s always the same. Volume is key. It’s only in the last 2 decades that “normal” people are so into training and sports. They were working back in the days. My dad doesn’t always understand how much time we spend on our hobbies. When he was my age, he had to work. If you didn’t wanted to work, you could try being a cyclist. Being a cyclist was a job, even more than it is now.
“The less time you have for training, the more intense your work should be”, I believe, is a nice try but in the end not the best way. But certainly: ‘a way’, at least better than nothing. So as always…it depends on what your goals are.
I just finished a Youtube interview with Tim Declercq and Seiler. Worth a listen about long days and how to train for it.
I don’t know. Started racing in the kids category in the 1980s. We still had a proper club culture then. I still remember the stories of the old guys. Today cycling is rich people’s sport, there was much more working class in the clubs. My first coach was working in a factory when he was racing as an amateur decades before. Rode to the races on his bike, slept in barns. These were no exceptions.
And ever heard about the running craze in the 1970s?
Well, to a certain degree. My n=1, ~20hr/wk for the last 5 yrs. You get a bump initially but then …
Depending on time of year 85-95% low intensity. Compared to 5 years ago I ride low intensity at a higher wattage but this has not translated to a higher wattage at higher intensitities.
