Why do you think the Pol workouts are easier? I would never say doing VO2 and TH is easier than doing SS.
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Im thinking more about the build phase. Its hard to compare base because of threshold vs sweetspot like you say.
Theres just quite a few workouts in POL build that are lower TSS, lower IF and same duration as the equivalent general build workout. However, having looked at the plans again, there are some POL workouts that are harder than their general build equivalents, so maybe it all evens out in the end…
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Yeah, and again, I’d caution you against chasing CTL. It comes back to that whole “not all TSS is created equal” thing. Do a hard Threshold ride on Saturday and then go ride 3 hours in high Z2 on Sunday, and that last hour can really become a grind.
Good luck!
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Thanks! Now I’m not sure which plan to choose 
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Hey there! We can go through those points for sure.
- TR Polarized plans use a 3-zone model and a minimum of 80/20 intensity distribution each week, as measured by time-in-zone. As such, about 20% of a given week’s training time will be in “Zone 3” (high intensity), with about 80% of that week’s time spent in “Zone 1” (low intensity).
- Also keep in mind that TIZ/TSS is not always “equivalent” when comparing workouts. Achieving 20 minutes of TIZ for VO2 by performing 30/30s vs. 5x4’, for example, would be two considerably different workouts. Polarized plans tend to focus more on sustained power as opposed to shorter bursts. The workouts you get in a plan will also vary depending on your current Progression Levels, which allows Adaptive Training to tailor your plan to where your fitness is currently at.
- It won’t necessarily be “better,” but it will be different. If you haven’t tried a Polarized plan before, it could be worth trying to see how you personally respond to that type of stimulus. If you’re looking to get 2 days of intensity per week, it may also be easier for you to plan out on your TR Calendar as you won’t have to worry about manually replacing an intensity session each week.
- You can still use other TR plans (such as Sweet Spot Base, for example) and swap out a higher-intensity workout for a lower-intensity session if you’d like – Adaptive Training will keep track of your Progression Levels for you, so rest assured that you’d still be getting the right workouts.
- The link @mcneese.chad posted lists the steps you’ll need to follow to get Plan Builder to sub in Polarized plans for you – everything should be laid out clearly there, but let me know if you need any additional help getting things set up!
Hope this info helps, and feel free to ask any other questions!
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80/20 should be 4 days out of 5 easy days, 1 day really really hard, according to Seiler…
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This was my impression too. 20% of the total time over lt2 seems like more than anybody recommends when talking about a polarized plan.
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Is 80/20 based on days then, rather than time in zone? Because I imagine the easy days are also long, whereas the harder days are short (or at least the amount of intensity on that day is short). So you might do 3 hours of z2 every day for 4 days, which is 12 hours of zone 2, but you presumably wouldn’t then do 3 hours of threshold or vo2 on your hard day.
As I mentioned above, Seiler says 80/20 in terms of workouts and more like 90/10 in terms of time…and don’t forget he uses a 3 zone model.
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I’ve watched a lot of interviews and he never really mentions it except that from about 6h/wk polarised is better than sweetspot/threshold
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ETA: OK, the info I used is in FastTalk Episode 54.
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The section starts at 1:02:25 with a lead-in from Trevor.
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The meat of my info related to “80/20 Session Time” starts at 1:03:30 with Seiler defining Sessions in terms of the actual Session Goal.
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Purely my take, but founded on the above info, I dislike the idea of the simple “Workout Count” idea. That suggests that you just do an 80/20 split on workout count regardless of workout time. It makes no sense to me because that equates something like a 1-hour POL Z1 ride as the “same” as something like a 5-hour POL Z1 ride. That or there is an implicit “minimum duration” for POL Z1 rides for them to “count”.
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To that end, I had previously done some example weeks with that concept as the foundation:
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With all that in mind, I think the Session Goal and related Duration make more basic sense when looking at the 80/20 distribution. But I could have this all entirely wrong, which is the reason I have not jumped into these discussions before now.
I almost hesitate to offer this info since there is so much confusion WRT to the 80/20 split, but I wrote a summary that I derived when listening to the original Seiler interviews with FastTalk back in late 2018.
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I think this came from either the 1st or 2nd POL episodes. I DL’d them and will listen again to find the section(s) that I used to write my summary.
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I really don’t know. Some people did analysis on the original TR POL plans in that introduction thread. You can look there for that info. The current plans were updated earlier this year, so that old data could be irrelevant.
Outside of that, the other issue here is that the actual TR POL plan each person gets can and does vary with their Endurance Progression Level at the very least. We have seen examples where people with low End PL have shorter workouts than those with higher End PL. I am usually in the 6-8 End PL range which gives me longer workouts than those on the other end of the scale.
I did all of the POL Base Mid Vol and most of the POL Build Mid Vol until I got sick late last year. The plan seemed good to me with only a cursory review of the layout and I felt good through the duration. I was just bummed to get sick and not be able to have a decent data point at the end so I could see how FTP progressed and I felt in general.
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What if we want to add extra volume?
Should we also add 80/20 workout or only z2 rides (which would change the 80/20 to 90/10 for instance)?
Not right now. I am in the first week of my Specialty phase, after completing SSB1, SSB2 and Short Power Build.
I plan to try the updated POL plans again after my mid-summer reset or in early Fall.
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Just my opinion, but I think if you are trying out a polarized model, stick with two high intensity sessions a week and do as much endurance-paced stuff as you can fit in and absorb. Really, I think all the 80/20, 90/10 stuff is sort of irrelevant. Pros spend more time on the bike and therefore end up with a more skewed ratio, but that doesn’t mean everyone should pursue a highly skewed ratio (descriptive, not prescriptive). The ratio is whatever the ratio is but the key is two hard workout and then as much endurance as you can stack on.
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Now that I’ve pretty much completed mid volume base of the new polarized plan, I can give a little more feedback on what I think about it. Compared to the Mid Vol SS Base I did this year it is so much easier in that there are only two threshold workouts compared to the VO2 Max, SS, and two Threshold workouts. Granted it’s not an apples: apples comparison as I just came back from cycling dormancy so the gains in FTP and fitness could have been less if I had done the polarized plan first. However, that’s neither here nor there.
With the polarized plan I find I am thinking about my workouts less and riding outside a lot more. With just four days of scheduled riding my schedule is more relaxed and I’m not as worried about adding time to my rides that are outside. I’ve also been able to attempt these threshold workouts outside, usually on longer climbs which I find a benefit as my A-events are all outside too. So being able to try and hold 16 minutes at suprathreshold and dealing with undulating terrains, head winds/tail winds etc adds to my skillset in being able to dose my output and put it in context.
I’ve maintained and had a small bump in FTP which is cool. Honestly, I’m having a hard time thinking that I will get a big bump in FTP given at how chill this base session has been. I’m curious if I’ll think the same now that I’m progressing to the polarized build mid volume plan. Time will tell. Until then, I’m liking the flexibility in the plan and I feel pretty free to ride outside given the framework of the plan.
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I dunno if it’s just me, but I’ve been doing a lot of the “z2” ride days outside. Usually for a couple more hours per week than the plan (ie, 10-12 hrs/wk). Plus often riding 7 days/wk instead of 6. Adaptive training has been nudging the planned z2 workouts lower. This is on high-volume polarized build.
I ran into an interesting gap in the new polarized plans on todays workout, curious if it’s unique to me or if others have experienced this
With the new polarized base plan there is no vo2 work. As such, when I completed polarized base mid volume my vo2 progression level had decayed significantly and was around 1.4.
Today I started polarized build mid volume and the vo2 workout it served was a breakthrough workout at a 4.0 pl. I did a quick review of alternates and saw there are no vo2 workouts in the polarized associations below a progression level of 4.0.
I’m pretty sure this means that anyone doing these two plans sequentially will run into this situation
I was able to pick out another workout that wasn’t listed as an alternate and was ‘only’ a stretch. Not a major problem but something I expect might cause confusion or potentially failures for others
Assuming the above is a common situation either new workouts at a lower pl or associating existing workouts as alternates would resolve the issue
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It’s curious to me that an experienced rider like you doesn’t have a fully customized trading plan.
What I’m doing is only skeletally connected to their plans, but I like the framework they provide as a baseline I can easily adjust and add to
ETA prior to the polarized plans existing I was doing entirely custom training. These plans happen to closely align with my current training and goals
I’ve been recovering from a serious crash for almost a year and doing longer intervals like these plans have matches my limitations as well as my ability to recover. These plans do work really well as a baseline
I’ve been doing mv polarized in one form or another for nine months, with several breaks for surgery and other forced breaks. I typically add 120 minutes of easy endurance on one day and 240 minutes of endurance with sprints on the other, bringing me to six days a week, with two being high intensity
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