Heart Rate Vs Power for VO2 Max Training

[Alexander_Heinzemann]

I know that cycling power is considered much better for training than heart rate. Back when I was competing in sailing, I did 2 months of V02 max training, we used heart rate, and most of the sessions were on the rowing machine. I saw a bump of 2.9 in my vo2max even while recovering from a cold. The intervals I had to get my heart rate into zone 5, which was for me 195 bpm and the internal timer wouldn’t start until I exceeded that threshold. It was torture because sometimes it took longer to get there, and the question is always, do I go hard out of the gate so my heart rate gets up faster or do a slower, more consistent build… they both suck btw.

My question is, wouldn’t it be more effective for V02 max intervals to use heart rate to make sure you’re actually getting into the correct zone? From my understanding, it’s more important to make sure you’re in that V02 max zone to get all the benefits vs when training other zones. Are there any studies comparing heart rate V02 max training vs power?

[Pbase]

Welcome to the forums!

Since you’re new here, I’d suggest doing a search of previous topics. We discuss this a lot and there was one just last week.

(I don’t work for TR)

[Alexander_Heinzemann]

I couldn’t find anything that’s specific to V02 max training.

[Twowkg]

IMO it depends on your goals. If you are targeting power improvements then pace to maximal power across the set.

If you are targeting adaptations to stroke volume etc then I would pace them to elicit extremely heavy breathing, fish out of water feeling. Generally by starting a bit harder and spinning a higher cadence.

In that case I am not specifically looking at a hr or power target. The intervals tend to be on the longer end ~5m and might reduce in length as fatigue mounts through a block.

[Pbase]

Here’s a few you might find interesting

How to "learn" to do VO2 max

I’ve been on TR for a few weeks, focusing on FTP improvement (I’m a climber by physique/ability). A couple of weeks ago I had my first workout with VO2 max blocks (is that the right word?). 1 min into the first 3 min block (300 watts, my FTP is 244w) I just had to stop. It was waaay too hard. I ended up skipping the rest of the workout and doing some zone 2. I may have been unwell or tired, but the VO2 just felt unreasonably difficult. Today my workout again has VO2 elements in again. 2.5min b…

What would a custom VO2 max progression look like?

Kolie told me something once that really resonated with me on how to execute vo2 This was after struggling my 3rd workout. I felt shit and was trying to increase power. Increasing power or total duration isn’t the goal of the block. You just want to invite a Max effort every time. The best way to do that as often as possible is this; “you should be trying to produce the highest heart rate possible using the lowest watts you can” One of the keys to that is high cadence. Next workout my power d…

Is it really a VO2max workout if you don't get anywhere near HRmax?

Last night I did a “stretch” VO2max workout, and I didn’t even hit my LTHR. I would say that I felt like I was getting pretty good stroke volume, since each beat felt pretty powerful. Is it really a VO2max workout if you don’t get anywhere near HRmax, as long as stroke volume and/or VO2 is relatively high? Or was the workout just too easy? I marked it as “moderate.” The “on” intervals felt like power I could do for more than five minutes without a problem.

Hard start VO2max intervals

I’ve had a few requests to share some hard start VO2max workouts I created. I created the following team that has four workouts to start with. Edit. Now 14 workouts. https://www.trainerroad.com/app/teams/14144-hard-start-vo2-max-intervals The workouts are a variant on the one below - with 6 x 2.5 minute, 3.0 minute , 3.5 minute and 4.0 minute VO2max intervals. Edit: I’ve also added workouts with longer intervals - 4 x 5, 5.5, and 6 min intervals. Edit: I’ve also created HS-1 versions whe…

[BCM]

Definitely read the threads @Pbase posted. Pretty nuanced discussion.

The short of it - it depends on what your goal is, and everything gets confused by the fact that VO2 Max is used to describe different things - both a physiological state or capacity (i.e. - raising your VO2 Max), as well as a training zone (x%-y% of FTP.)

[kurt.braeckel]

Effort/RPE guided by power (with a very high cadence)!

[mwglow15]

This.

HR and power are both just proxy measurements for the state you are trying to achieve. You’re basically trying to do 2 things. 1) maximal oxygen demand and 2) max stroke volume.

1 is best measured with a metabolic cart. Short of that, RPE and breathing are probably the best measures of achieving this state. Gasping for air shows that your body is starving for oxygen.

2. helps achieve that stroke volume by increasing venous return and allowing the heart to have more blood to push each time. It also puts less strain on your leg muscles so you’re less fatigued within and between workouts.

I use power in 2 ways during these intervals. For the first minute or so I check a couple times to make sure I’m not going too hard out of the gate (power will naturally fall during the interval but I don’t want to do 1m at 200%). And as a double check that I’m still able to put out a good effort by the end. If I’m barely exceeding FTP then I’ll stop the workout.