This is somewhat of a swag but I’ll toss it out anyways… looking at my own data suggests ~3 weeks to see a fitness bump after a big overload week/block. That is generally true and most recently saw that happen a year ago, 9 months ago, and just over a month ago.
3 Likes
Also my observation. It takes around 3 weeks of threshold after vo2 max to see gains (in this exact case and two the same combinations before)
This wasn’t structured but 4 weeks after this overload week I had a big fitness bump:
checkout the IF on those workouts. And some time-in-zone (iLevels FRC/FTP is basically VO2max Classic Coggan):
Self-coaching “pressing the accelerator on every workout” approach to an overload week 
No real vo2max structured workouts but it worked 
although a week and half later I was forced to take 9 days off to recover 
File this under “how not to coach yourself for consistency” LOL
1 Like
I have had these 2h spreaderd nto two weeks - so 1h/wk in frc/ftp followed by 3 weeks 2-3h in FTP zone (basically I have copied the same scheme that has given me the most gains in the past to check the outcome).
The conclusion is - if you want gains, do at least to 2h in FRC/FTP zone 
we have found a silver bullet of FTP work 
1 Like
And make everything a hard start! Pulling out of the driveway, getting passed by a car, coming out of a corner, …
1 Like
From my understanding, this is what Kolie does for a typical rider. 1 week recovery post-vo2 block, then a week for testing and getting back into the next block
1 Like
From a podcast I thought he doesn’t test that often?
Yep, my plan is to feel it out and then add a couple of days once I’m feeling fresh. Probably end up with 7-10 days of recovery riding, some testing, then a short HVLI block.
I don’t believe either he nor Tim formally test often, even KM’s FTP/TTE protocol is one I’m recognizing doesn’t need to be done every 4-6 weeks. I’m thinking I’ll test every second block, or when I suspect a significant (>5W) FTP increase rather than every block.
In the webinars, however, you’d see that Tim does baseline testing in Prep, and then again in “Base 2”. The implication is that Tim would only run two formal test week protocols, the rest is informal residual testing.
As you know, with the WKO5 model, you don’t really need to formally test all that often. I’m finding that out myself as my tests are all coming back pretty much spot dialed with WKO and my own intuition. It’s almost like the formal tests are just self-fulfilling, and the actual gains are demonstrated by my residuals tests.
The cool part about having nothing but time and no events for this long is the fact that I can literally plan week-by-week right now with just a general meso- and macro-cycle framework in place. If I want more time doing whatever, I can take it. If I feel good, I just move on sooner.
This is my first season truly individualizing my own training like this, and it’s quite liberating compared to feeling compelled to move from phase-to-phase on some prescribed timeline to meet an event demand.
1 Like
To add what @kurt.braeckel mentioned, KM is really only doing these Vo2 blocks 1-3 times per year, so it’s not really that often even then. Probably more to get an idea of the adaptations as they happened from the block and use the information for designing the next block. I believe his testing is very similar to what Tim C does – mostly preseason then testing later as needed.
One thing that I am speculating here in regards to the FTP testing, is that KM is very big on knowing how your FTP feels. If you’re really in-tune with your body you should be able to feel when it’s time to bump up the FTP a couple of watts or do another test.
About to finish 2 wks of VO2 work. Lots of bacpedalling, but not planning to go for 3 wks. I plan a recovery week, then a week of about 9 hrs of Zone 2, then starting Sustained Power Build, LV.
Thanks and makes sense with what I remember hearing on Empirical Cycling podcast. I’ve got one of Tim C’s plans (masters full season) and he advises some formal test weeks and more frequent informal testing to touch up PDC about every 4 weeks (also seen that in a webinar). My coach is more along the lines of KM.
1 Like
I think this is probably true of any coach worth his/her salt. We should be able to guide athletes well enough that we know when there’s been a fitness gain, rather than just cramming tests down our/their throats hoping for gains. I’ve tested too much this season already, and each time I knew going in where I was within 3-5W, including two tests ago when I felt like my FTP was the same as four weeks prior. I won’t be doing pointless FTP testing anymore now that I’ve got a good workflow and handle on WKO5.
4 Likes
Agree 100%, that’s a good way to put it
I added some Hard Start - 1 versions of the workouts.
These have a less hard start in each interval, and a higher power for the flat portion of the interval.
I’ve generally matched the IF between the HS and HS-1 versions of the workouts. So the goal is that they are about as hard, just with a different power profile in the interval.
There are two groups of workouts:
- 6 intervals ranging from 2.5 to 4 minutes in half minute increments
- 4 intervals ranging from 5 to 6 minutes in half minute increments
The IFs range from 0.90 to 0.96 - and can be used to guide a VO2max progression - if you’re into that kind of punishment!
4 Likes
Did my third workout this week to start the block - we’re down child care this week, so only three rides I could get in, I did them all as hard-start VO2max intervals. First two I did (or tried) 4x5min.
First workout, I faded too much on the final one and pulled the plug 3 minutes in. I was starting too hard.
Second, I made all 4x5/5, was definitely dying at the end of number 4 but maintained above threshold the whole time, with the proper VO2max breathing and HR feel.
Today, 5x4/4, and I kinda feel like this was an even better workout. I made the first four cleanly with small power dropoff and only the final one was really struggling for the final minute. HR response was even better, breathing the same.
Probably do 5x4 again, then move to 6x3:30 depending on overall fatigue next week. Planning to just do two VO2max sessions next week, adding my long ride back in on Saturday and another Z2 session or two during the week.
Started calling these “blackouts” since I generally just pedal until things start going dark. 
Not sure I’d call them that for anyone I’m coaching…
1 Like
First time back doing hard starts in a while today. Firstly, they never get any easier 
. I was pleased with how the session went though (5x4 minutes). Totalled nearly 16 mins at 180bpm+ which is good stimulus for me.
A fair bit off my power PB for the duration but I noticed that my best powers for shorter efforts like this are at lower cadences (presumably I can recruit more motor units/muscle fibers by increasing the torque demands).
Hard start was a fair bit easier than my last attempt at these: Vo2 Max training - did I do it right? but found riding on a turbo helped this. Powers dropped during the efforts (although rpe wasn’t short of a 9 throughout), but always managed to keep it above FTP
1 Like
After a round of threshold training. I went ahead a did another vo2 workout.
5x3min. Over Christmas holiday these workouts were destroying me and it took 2 weeks to get to this duration and interval time. Now 5x3 was my first workout of the block and initial RPE didn’t kill me.
10-15 watts up across the range
1 Like
I’ve been doing a VO2max workout once every 10 days or two weeks. This hard start format seems to work pretty well - gets HR up quickly and then plateaus.
For the flat part of each interval, I hit the following heart rates:
1st interval: 93% of max
2nd: 95%
3rd: 97%
4th: 97%
This was close to my limit today - not sure I’m ready for the next version of this which has 5.5 min intervals instead of 5.
But I’m still in base phase, so not focused on building VO2max. With some focus, I hope to be able to advance to the harder ones.
4 Likes
Really curious, those who have done a block of this how have the gains been?