What about a much reduced power output? What if in your fatigue at the back third of a hard workout, you do a hard start and go to 70%—heartrate isn’t dropping, but power is obviously aerobic. Will the high heart rate (until it normalizes below the 90-95% max hr) stimulate VO2 adaptations? Or if fatigue is preventing the sustained high power, the workout was too hard and it’s time to pull the plug?
You could well be right. I was just surprised at the large difference between the same workouts in terms of TiZ - if I look down to >89% MaxHR then I achieved circa 18m in the first workout and circa 12m in the second workout - not as large a difference as the >90% MaxHR…will chalk it up to some fatigue on continue on as planned
This is a good point - my cadence in the first workout was very slightly higher than the second workout - perhaps this might of made all the difference! Will try and spin a bit quicker on my next one to see if I can get this to work.
I really don’t know at this point - I am hoping this block would go some way to informing my opinions on that matter. I am going to keep pressing forward as planned and see if the next workout provides the ‘correct’ stimulus - if not see if I need to try and nudge a bit harder. So far I am a fan of the HS intervals to increase the rate at which HR ticks upwards.
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Finished my block 10 days ago, took some time off the bike and went away.
Did a SST workout today, RPE was MUCH lower, but HR was like 5-8bpm higher than normal SST range.
Normal?
my HR is elevated after only 4 days off the bike.
Possible reasons are in this article:
Comes back quick, I think its normal and ignore it.
I’m not sure 10 days is going to qualify for what they are talking about. This was effectively a recovery week.
10 days off? Like I said, 4 days off the bike is enough to increase my HR on the first ride or two after the break. Sucks to be me.
My RHR goes down when I rest! And goes up the next day after heavy squats or intensity on the bike.
I have a standard Z2 ride where I always track my HR post event, and I have over a year of data. I have seen HR vary from 115 to 133, from maybe 50 data points. Sure, I could rule out some outliers (like the 133, and a couple in the late 120s) where I know I was tired, but the point is that I am seeing 10bpm swing in HR day-to-day because of other factors.
So, 5-8bpm is within the range, I’d be OK with that. But also do repeat the same session and keep tracking HR, as you’d really want to see a general reduction in HR to match RPE. But I think RPE is just as valid for measuring improvement.
Started a VO2max block after 4 months of base. Smashed the first workout 6x3min with tiny hard starts. Got about 15 minutes at over 90% hr from 18 minutes of work.
Rpe was surprisingly ok 7-8 but I came fresh from a recovery week. Last intervals I hit 97% hr do you think this is too much?
I’m planning 2 VO2 workouts a week for 3 weeks, maybe 3 on the last week. Rest of it Z2 at about 14hpwk total. I don’t want to overcook myself early in the block.
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Looks like a pretty textbook example of how to compete a VO2Max session to me.
Looks like you have good VO2 on-kinetics to be able to get HR up to target zone so quickly with relatively short interval length.
You are striving for as much time above 90% MaxHR with these so I don’t see how going to 97% will cause a problem.
2 workouts a week for 3 weeks and possibly a 3rd workout in the final week for overload seems pretty typical and what I am doing.
Advise I got on this thread was to start with longer intervals and start to shorten length but increase quantity as you progress through the block to manage fatigue etc.
Good job!
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It usually takes me about a minute at 120% to get to 90% hr, first interval a bit longer. I read that a good warmup helps a lot. 30min Z2, 2min at 105% and a set of 30/30’s seemed to work great.
Wanted to start with shorter intervals just to get used to pushing V02 power again. I was thinking first progressing the length 6x3min, 6x3min20s, 5x4min will progress the time at over 95% hr. After that I try to increase power or reduce rest.
This was my original intention (6x3 > 6x3.5 > 5x4 > 3x6 > 4x5 > 7x3) but took some advice on reversing the order - I’m glad I did - in third week now and its harder to get HR up where I want it as the work catches up with me and fatigue is building - YMMV
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When you do a vo2max block (2 weeks or so), how long does it take your body has adapted to these sessions? When will you feel you have made some gains? (hopefully :-))
Last year I did a progression from 6x3, 5x4, 4x5, 4x6, 4x7 and ending in 4x8min.
It was brutal but doable. But the gains weren’t as good as I expected probably because I never increased power. Also my base wasn’t so good back then.
This year I’m capping the work around 20 minutes but try to push the power.
Six weeks or so. You may see lower HR for similar zone 2 power (higher EF) within a week or two of finishing, but as you adapt and assuming proper rest and follow-on work and again rest, you should reap the gains in six weeks.
Progress it 3x6 up to 7x3. You get both higher working time, but same/similar TiZ AND you can increase working power… until you can’t. That progression you tried last year is nuts (not in a good way).
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Is this specifically a good thing (eg. preliminary signs of adaptation) or just a by product of the VO2Max work (eg. building fatigue etc)?
I ask as I feel like I am seeing a lower HR doing z2 already and I am in the 3rd (and final) week of this VO2Max block.
Right now it is probably fatigue. You may see the same thing sustained during and after your recovery as well, however, which is less likely to be fatigue related.
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Oh, good question. I want to say, if you’re starting a ‘novel’ training block (meaning starting from scratch, after some time off, or after some very different training stimuli) then you might feel subjective “gains” within a couple days of the first workout? Or maybe after one or two sessions of the same workout. Which is a good sign that you can progress the workout.
That is of course, if you give yourself time to recover between hard sessions, absorb the stimulus, and ‘re-freshen’ before performing the next one. Then you might notice the same workout feels easier after a couple sessions.
If the same workout is feeling harder on subsequent sessions (all else being relatively equal), then almost by definition you aren’t recovering ‘sufficiently’ between sessions?
However, the intent of a training block is often to accumulate training load and intentionally ‘under-recover’ between sessions, such that subsequent workouts may not feel easier in the short-term. Then before performance starts to drop, you would take a longer recovery period at the end of the block. After which the same workout should feel easier, or you would be able to progress the training load.
The longer training experience we have, the less progression or regression we’re likely to see in subjective “gains” between workouts or between training blocks. If I’m a relative novice to training, any change in training stimulus will cause a big swing in physiological state, I’ll feel big differences in performance, but I will probably need more recovery between hard sessions. If I’ve been training for a few years and the lower hanging fruit has been picked clean, I won’t experience those big swings and probably won’t feel the incremental change between workouts / weeks / training blocks.
Another good question. I want to say, what does it feel like?
Are you seeing lower HR during low-intensity exercise and the effort feels hard, your legs feel heavy, you can’t get comfortable, and you couldn’t get your HR up if you tried?
Or are you seeing lower HR and you can’t feel the pedals, you keep thinking you’re in the little ring, and when you do put in a little effort, your HR comes up immediately?
Qualitative sensations put quantitative power and HR numbers into context. Our brain is very good at telling us how our performance, fatigue, or freshness is at any given time.
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2 full weeks later I am starting to see the effects.
HR has come down, RHR has come down, and RPE has come waaaaaaay down.
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