I think it is better to start with 4x5, 5x4, 6x3.3, 7x3
When you are more fatique during the vo2 week, you make the blocks shorter.
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I’m in week 5 of my first VO2 block after 9 years in triathlon; very familiar with threshold and below… but I found crits last year and really enjoying the higher intensity. I’m seeing a lot of fitness gains I don’t think would have been possible otherwise. Rolling back to Tuesday–I did 15 minutes of sprint practice in my neighborhood. Rolled into Rattlesnake–new favorite time crunched workout. It was a good one.
I’ve had a hard time getting my heart rate up with 30/30s and found a lot of success with sustained intervals. The reduced recovery was also a winner with keeping HR up. Learning a lot from this thread
Target events are crits and some rolling road races scattered from mid April to mid May
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I think you’re going to find it really hard to increase interval length as you fatigue through the block. That’s why most of the blocks done here are in reverse order of what you did… start longer and end shorter.
Thanks both - I will take heed of your advice and reverse the planned order.
With this in mind, I did 4x5 HS this morning and all went well. I ended up with 14m25s TiZ >90% MaxHR.
Out of interest, what % TiZ >90% MaxHR are people getting ref planned vs. actual for VO2Max workouts? For the two workouts I have completed, I’m looking at:
- 6x3: Planned 18m vs Actual 11m30s = 63%
- 4x5: Planned 20m vs Actual 14m25s = 72%
That’s about right. For 18-21 min of work I’ll usually get between 14-16min. Depends on interval structure, your personal VO2 kinetics, execution… but youre in the ballpark there.
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Wanted to get some second opinions as I’m second guessing what I plan to do next.
Quick details on what I’ve done…
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Approx 9 weeks of straight Z2 time extending volume
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2 week Vo2 mini block 5 workouts total
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4 week extensive SS block going from 4x12 to 2x60 with 2 workouts a week
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Currently on a rest week
Everything is on track and I’m making some great numbers so far, better than ever before.
I was planning on doing another round of Vo2, a full 3 week block this time maybe, but I kinda feel like it might be too soon. But on the other hand I didn’t really do a full block last time so maybe not. Plan was to do that and then mix in over/unders with some B and C races coming up in about 7 weeks… although now seeing there is a bit of a gap in there.
First A race is quite a ways out (late May) but I have some B races coming up that I’d like to do good at.
Just thinking out loud some as things are going great and I don’t want to mess it up in the home stretch 
I wouldn’t do more VO2max unless you have reason to believe you need to. Odds are good you don’t. Threshold build - focus on over-unders, raising threshold power, and as much Z2 riding as you can get.
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Well my reasons would be that I’ve only done 5 (4.5 really) workouts over threshold so far, not counting a 20min ftp test. And I still have a decent amount of time before the important races.
Started doing that last year and it’s worked wonders. Volume is hard to beat when you can get it.
Just answering questions, hope it doesn’t come across like my mind can’t be changed. Appreciate the input 
No problem, these are just opinions without knowing a thing about you other than what you’ve written here. 5 workouts in the span of two weeks is a lot more work than you might think. If you lifted your aerobic ceiling a little bit, then you haven’t really done the work to push threshold up under that ceiling yet. You’ve done some extensive work to push your ability to sustain power out, but now you probably have some room to push power up.
Again, that’s just general principle and might not apply to your case, but just going off of what you wrote about having done so far. Cheers!
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Results from Vo2 block
After a reasonable November, December doing mainly base with some tempo intervals mid week (9-10hrs/w)
I used the aerotune test
Vo2 max 61
Vla max 0.61
Critical power 259w
Weight 63.5kg
8 weeks later, 2 x 3 sessions per week vo2 and two weeks I did only 1 session as I could feel a cold coming so backed off. Last couple of weeks I’ve tweaked lower back and also been on the verge of a cold so only have done z1/z2 and have felt pretty naff on the bike.
Training was either 15/15, 40/20 or hard start 4-5 mins. Cadence always high. I always have to work to get HR up and very rarely get into the 160s. All other training was strict zone 2. 10-11hours per week total volume.
Post training results
Vo2 max 64.4. (This was from an extra 14w)
Vla max 0.78
CP 259
Weight 63.5kg
So it’s not been a perfect block but I’m happy enough with that. Obviously it’s a Sweetspot /THR block next to raise FTP and lower vlamax.
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Question on recovery from this work…
Did my last, and probably hardest session 6 days ago. Days afterwards a few short easy spins <1hr on the trainer and day off. Rode with a friend on Friday and my HR was +15bpm fr even an easy z2 effort and my legs were empty. Managed 2 hours. Yesterday I rode 3hrs z2/low z3 at times, and HR was normal again but legs still felt very tired and no way I could have done any meaningful harder work.
Was hoping to start some z4 work next week but now wondering if I just need another week to recover. I didn’t do anything like the number of sessions many of you are reporting, but feels like I’ve either dug a bigger hole than I though or maybe fighting a bug etc (but no other symptoms)?
Is maybe another week of z2 a good idea do you think? Head says probably but nagging at the back of my mind is my 8 week deadline to LBL and a desire to hit the next block of threshold. Thoughts?
I went in after a good base - working up to 20 hours by the final week, so relatively good fitness and prep. IMO my 10 easy days afterwards (all low Z2) wasn’t quite enough. 14 days for me next time. Good news is I seem to be feeling better as my Z4 block went on. Will probably test FTP after recovery week.
Plan was continue extensive FTP, but I’ll probably do a bit more SST/Threshold w bursts as I’ve entered a C race 20/03, and just want a bit more specificity before.
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Last season I did 9 easy days. Suspect this one will be 9 or 10 again, though I felt pretty good today (2 days in. 
)
Not sure if you follow Kolie’s IG but he specifically suggested riding 10 min at FTP to test recovery. If you’re fatigued or it feels harder than threshold should, shut it down and take more time. Maybe try that after your 1 week off? Could help determine the difference between fatigued and flat.
Either way, why be tied to weeks? If you feel good after ten days, start working.
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Finished my 2 weeks vo2max block but boy this is hard as f*.
First 3 workouts went great. Pushed it maybe a bit to much on a endurance ride (4 hours of upper z2…) and the next 3 workouts went “meh”.
Not only is my body physically drained, but the mental aspect of those workouts really kicked in. During the last workout i just couldn’t stay focused on the work. The ability to suffer just wasn’t there anymore.
Hope the 2 hours and 25 minutes of z5/z6 in the last 2 weeks were worth it 
^^
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Thanks - the 10 min FTP idea is a great one. Will try that on my indoors tomorrow.
I’m not stuck in a weekly cycle luckily but do get driven by the weather - hard to pass up good weather to ride outside but the roads dont allow quality intervals when looking at threshold work.
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I thought this was a really good and easy to understand (like all HNP articles I find…a vote for their book from me) article on VO2 Kinetics that I thought would be of interest to those in, or who find this thread.
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So, here’s one for the hive mind - would appreciate thoughts.
Into my second week of a VO2Max block doing two HS VO2Max workouts a week with as much z2 around it as I can and a (probably too intense) group ride. The second VO2Max workout of the first week was a 4x5 and I started the second week this morning with another 4x5 - so same workout, 1 week apart…
First time I did the workout I got circa 14m TiZ, the second time I did it (this morning), I got circa 1m TiZ! So, what happened?
Looking at the intervals in terms of power they are pretty similar and in terms of RPE felt about the same I think, but I was surprised that my HR didn’t tip over to >90% MaxHR for a longer time.
Workout 1, 24/02/22:
Workout 2, 02/03/22:
So, what am I missing here? Fatigue causing HR to not rise? Didn’t go hard enough? Adaptation kicking in from previous block(s) - SST and THR progression? Something else?
Looking at the two days, the other daily metrics which could offer some context are RHR and HRV, which were all seemingly within normal deviation values (Workout 1, 24/02/22: RHR, 42 & HRV, 71 & Workout 2, 02/03/22: RHR, 41 & HRV, 67) apart from this morning prior to workout to my HRV app noted I was in a Sympathetic state.
I don’t want to over think it but focusing on KM approach and TiZ >90% MaxHR I want this 3 week VO2Max block to be as productive as possible.
I would think just some fatigue in the body? Aren’t the difference not that big? And ok, Tiz is a goal. But is there really that much difference when HR is at 89% vs 91%? Maybe adaptations are within the same ballpark? I think that if you have the feeling you did a great workout, you pushed yourself, you certainly would have some gains…
It could also be fueling, time of the day, …
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I’ve been following a similar approach since New Year, so I have logged 12 HS VO2 workouts (all pretty much identical) and I do see some fluctuation in HR day to day. It could be a number of things, but I put it down to fatigue. Adaption and improvement tends to come with a fairly noticable improvement in RPE; I knew when I needed to increase power, because HR was a few beats down, but it FELT much easier.
One point that is mentioned above is that higher cadence can increase HR. So, if you’re into a workout, halfway through an effort, and you notice HR is a few beats below where you want, you could try increasing cadence 10-20rpm. This seems to work for me - when tired, HR during my first effort can seem to hover at 88-89% max, and if I concentrate on spinning up, I can get the last few bpm.
But as @stino77 says, is there really much difference between 89% and 91%? I guess you have to decide how close to your VO2 max ceiling you are! For me, I think I have a lot of room for improvement, and any stimulus in the right area will move me forward. If you are already good at VO2 max and you aren’t new to this training, the approach that’s talked about further up-thread, where you are working at 93, 94% and above might be needed to get further adaption?