Interesting - thanks
I’m a solid diesel type and definitely a more endurance focused rider. My goads are multi day and long GF type rides. I’d be very interested to get some prescriptions on intensity if they’re fairly effective and for 25 euro it seems like fairly low risk.
Same with me. That’s why the workouts like Kaiser didn’t really work out well for me, and what motivated me to make this series of hard start workouts listed in the first post.
These workouts have intervals that not only have a hard start, but decline in intensity with subsequent intervals. It took a little trial and error to dial in the best format that works for me. I do them in erg mode to prevent myself from going too hard in the initial intervals.
Has worked out pretty well - although if anything, I need to dial up the intensity of the first couple of intervals a little, and dial down the later ones - as the first ones still feel relatively easy vs. the later. My most recent workout is below - note the HR rising with subsequent intervals.
Same here. Need to do the on harder or the off shorter (but not trashing legs at the same time). For the on/off I like the Rattlesnake format.
If you look my weekend picture above (Hard start VO2max intervals - #488 by Rizzi) the Rattlesnake+1 was done with keeping the on harder than prescribed. Interestingly that workout and the one with the longest intervals (4x10 with 2min hard start) gave me most time >= 90% HRmax. Both around 26min whereas the other VO2max workouts had me around 15-20min in that HR range.
Next monday I start with my Vo2max block. WIll post some results here. Still don’t know which interval length to choose. Cusick advices the 5x3min…8x3min. Some say 4x4, … other say 6x5…Even 4x8min.
But those long intervals? If you go max? Seems very hard. I analyze afterwards and try to see how much time above 90%HR of 95%Vo2max power.
For now, I have the goal to do my block in a Block Periodization way. One very hard week of 4 or 5 sessions, and then 3 weeks only one session filled with Z2/Z1
Yes, I agree there is a learning curve to figure out what is sustainable and repeatable. I started falling apart on interval 4 yesterday but was still above threshold at the end. HR was 3bpm lower, but breathing was on point. That was my third workout of the block; the first was very much a re-calibration of these efforts and the course on which I do them.
In terms of max HR, what are you hitting in these intervals?
I did half my workouts on the trainer last year and half outside and I found that I went deeper from a breathing and HR perspective outside. I can butt right up against max HR outside, I never get that close inside, 5-10bpm less usually.
I’ve done Rattlesnake a few times in the past. Definitely better for me. HR lower than inside long hard start intervals, but not as much lower as regular constant 40/20s, etc.
Sorry for the string of replies. On the trainer long Z2 right now so formatting isn’t going to happen! 
This is what I find with HR inside being less and why I prefer the intermittent stuff inside. Outside up a hill is much easier for me to get the HR Up. Inside I need to rev really fast to get HR up in long reps. Like 120-130rpm. Outdoor cadence around 100-110rpm, power tends to be 25w more also. Maybe more.
6mins x 4 reps 40/20 gets me 15mins @ 90% HRmax.
My max is around 172bpm and anything in the 150’s is working hard for me.
Max on the most recent one was 176. My max is about 180, maybe a few bpm higher if I’m outside on my MTB.
Just go into Advanced Cycling viewin WKO5, and review the Optimized Interval Target Cycling chart.
The “Max Aerobic” line is a good baseline for your VO2 efforts in terms of duration and power target. From there you should be able to fine tune what you are doing. But honestly if you do those numbers as TC has said many times before, you are 90% of the way there.
Note that your PDC needs to be properly populated otherwise its just garbage in garbage out.
I was also reminded today that fueling the day before probably has a big impact as well. Listened to the Peter Atilla podcast on fructose and he points out that fructose consumption actually reduces energy stores. The day before my last vo2 day I was a bit crap on eating and involved far too much fructose consumption - low and behold felt crap from interval 1 onwards 
I’m really going to focus on nailing nutrition during this block and hopefully increase quality as I dial in the intensity.
Agree with this. I don’t stare at power, but early in the intervals do use that Max Aerobic range as my target to make sure I’m not overdoing things and risking blowing up. It’s worked well for me… usually by the end of a set I’m hanging out 5% or so above threshold, but each interval ends up feeling “all out” for this specific protocol (high cadence/hard start).
I think this may be related to the absolute power produced in these sessions. If a strong rider tries these blocks with a power level of lets say 6+ wkg, damage can be too high to recover from.
At the end we are not machines and not all functions of the body will scale up to aerobic performance.
Did something similar to this today. 20/10s for 6min TIZ x 4 sets total. I found I was able to get up to 90% HRmax by the end of the 2nd or 3rd interval, so I was getting over 5 minutes per set. Much easier for me to extend the time at HRmax compared to long continuous intervals. Really struggle with anything longer than 3min continuous. I chose 20/10s based on that Seiler video posted above. First time doing these types of intervals so I’m going to continue to experiment and extend the total TIZ per set, but first impressions are good.
Ok, Max Aerobic is 5:36 between 276-295W (mFTP 250w). (indoor values).
After workout best to analyze the relative to vo2max chart? But do you guys look at time above 90-95% at power above Vo2max? Or do you look at HR above 90%?
Have someone a graph for wko5 that shows time HR >90%?
here’s an example from a poor workout last week, when I wasn’t feeling great and didnt hit the numbers - shows what you want though I think
No idea how accurate these estimates are though?
Personally I don’t look at power so long as it stays above threshold for all the intervals. For me, it’s about breathing rate/sensation and then HR.
For a power target to guide my workouts, especially the longer intervals, I aim for the low end of max aerobic in WKO5 but I mostly focus on keeping cadence above 105 and “all out” effort. Let the numbers be the numbers and adjust effort accordingly.
This is what I use as well.
Again, you need a properly populated PDC model for it all to work, but it gets you 90% of the way there.
I had a major breakthrough today by experimenting with using a ventolin asthma inhaler prior to my vo2 session, hoping that it may avoid the exercise induced asthma feelings I suspect I’ve been experiencing at the end of hard intervals.
I was warned it may cause my HR to do odd things, and I did notice a slightly high HR throughout the session today, but I was also feeling a little ‘off’ all day anyway after a few nights bad sleep etc. My HR hit some pretty high levels but my breathing stayed OK (ragged, fast etc etc) until the end and I avoided the suffocating/unable to breath experience I always get after finish hard intervals like this - major result, as that has been severe enough to stop me really going hard on vo2 work.
For the first time in a long time it really felt like my legs were once again the limiting factor rather than my respiratory system. It wasnt the greatest session going by the numbers but it feels like I’ve crossed off a major limiter to this type of work, assuming this continues to work in future.
