Another thing I haven’t considered is that group rides have just started happening in my area. Lockdown was pretty stiff and group rides have been dead for the last year. For example, this local ride had about 10-15 regulars for the last year. The ride last week had 70 people total so they split the ride into two groups 
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So…there would be more than one person inherently involved in an accident, so it’s not like the only thing at stake is the cyclist doing dumb stuff getting killed. At best, someone has to live with killing another person. At worst, it cascades to a bigger accident.
Several red flags with this group.
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Very good point, I don’t talk enough while riding. I do try to call out stops and the like, but I noticed people verbalizing a lot more when the pace is up. I should do the same and let people know my intentions.
As for crossing the double yellow, the road is straight as an arrow for about 4 miles. But the road has slight undulations that make it hard to see cars more than a mile away. That plus the fact that the group echeloning in and out confuses drivers coming up from behind. Regardless, I think I’ll just drop myself the next time this happens.
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Ah, very good point 
. This is the education I enjoy receiving on this forum.
As someone else mentioned, I think I’m going to be more vocal on the ride. Part of the problem is that this group ballooned from 15 riders during the pandemic to 70, literally overnight. A lot of new people (including me) and incredibly strong riders really confused the group.
I think being vocal is key, if not to make things safer then to at least form a separate echelon for those riders who don’t want to ride across the double yellow.
A great opportunity to be a leader and let people know that’s not okay. Group rides, like anything, can exhibit a mob mentality. Good on you for not being pulled into that.
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It sounds like a lot of wannabe pro riders who need to chill and not take riding so seriously.
It’s not a race, so why are people getting upset over a draft. I wouldn’t fight for one, but if someone tried pushing me out of the way I would be having a stern word with them. Remember, this is supposed to be fun where you all return home in one piece.
Cyclists get a bad rep at the best of times and riding onto the other side of the road just to maintain a draft is nothing short of stupid. Good on you for not crossing the line!
Get on and enjoy the downhills, if people can’t keep up that’s their problem. People can’t moan about downhills being dangerous but on the other hand they’re happy to fight for wheels and ride on the wrong side of the road. Riding fast down a hill is a skill just like everything else.
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For sure going fast is so fun, as is riding at our limits! So fun!
I was talking about the behaviors of the group though. I have done lots of fast rides where people aren’t being dangerous or berating.
Looks/sounds like you got some great advice here…
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Is it a hard ride with a pace line throughout or is it like a group in a race?
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I agree fully about the safety issue, especially with the double yellow thing. That said, it’s known to be a race-pace group ride so I’m not surprised by the type of riders it brings out; doubly so since racing hasn’t started up yet.
But agreed, you can still ride fast but ride safe, no doubt about it.
Near as I can tell…both? There are neutralized areas (mostly within town limits) where we’ll just ride as a blob. But as soon as we hit the country road we get attacks and people trying to break away. It was confusing to me at first because I was thinking it was a group ride, aka social ride.
When the break goes, you might get a chase group that pacelines to bring the break back. Otherwise the group just blobs up and it turns into a group ride while the breakaway gets to the coffee shop first.
My guess it is established riders in the group not certain about new riders who have joined and looking to maintain order.
Our Tues / Thurs AM rides are open to all…but you are expected to adhere to the rules / eitquette of our group…and be able to hold the pace. If we are unsure of your capabilities and you start trying to jockey us for wheels / paceline position, we’ll absolutely say something. We have been riding together for years and know how we all ride…and there is safety in that. If someone new joins in, and adds a degree of uncertainty to the mix, that safety factor is decreased.
Again, if it is an established ride with a core group of riders, that is a good way to earn a bad rep among them. It is their ride…if you don’t like how they conduct it, simply find another ride. it is not “their problem” if it is their ride…it is your problem.
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If someone new joins ‘your’ ride then take the time to explain the etiquette before you pull away or in any conversations you have before the ride starts. At least give people the chance to understand what the ride is about before arriving rather than mid ride.
True, but you can’t ride on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic and then moan at someone for riding fast on the downhills.
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Sadly enough this is more common than you might think. (the moaning)
This is also why I despise most group rides because the average intelligence of the group rapidly approaches that of a microwaved potato.
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That responsibility goes both ways…and I’d argue that the majority of it belongs on the new rider. Show up early, introduce yourself, ask if it is OK to tag along and if there is anything you should know about the ride. You are introducing yourself into the equation…but we also make sure that new riders understand the dynamics of our rides.
I’m not talking about the specifics of this event, but the general idea of “if they can’t keep up, that is their problem.” No, it is your problem for disrupting the dynamics of their group (whatever the situation may be).
Example - I occasionally have to go to the West Palm beach, FL area (every couple of years). There is a group down there that I have tagged along with occasionally. Always introduce myself and I don’t try and animate things. Sure, there are times when I could attack or go chase someone else down, but I just think it is kinda dickish to do so. I’m a guest on their ride, so I generally follow wheels, take my pulls and prove that I can handle myself in their group. That, in turn, earns me respect from the regulars.
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70?! That’s nuts. Only known a few regular rides with numbers approaching that, and they were on almost empty roads and with clear and strongly enforced etiquette to keep it safe. Those numbers with what sounds like some poor behaviour and on roads with big vehicles seems like an accident waiting to happen.
Great that so many people are keen to get out on their bikes after lockdown. Hopefully it was an unexpected one off and the organisers/leaders are putting plans in place to deal with it safely if they see those kind of numbers regularly. Splitting it into multiple smaller groups by speed/ability would be a good place to start. People fighting for wheels is IME quite often a symptom of a group with a big spread of fitness and with weaker riders who are scared that if they drop too far back they’ll get dropped. And/or simply too many riders so those at the back never get a turn and hence everybody is fighting to stay near the front.
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Agreed, it does go both ways. I guess it depends on how you found out about the ride though. Word of mouth is one thing and just turning up but if it’s advertised somewhere else then explain the etiquette in that advertisement.
Well, I’m talking about this specific ride and at no point have I said this applies to ALL group rides!
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Weaker/inexperienced riders will take a lot of risks to stay in the draft. That’s why it’s so important for the guys on the front to think about what they do and how it affects 30 riders back. No one wants to get dropped but, in the end it’s training and I think guys who don’t necessarily race (group ride racer types) treat these rides as their race and ignore the fact that it’s an open road etc…
For cyclist to gain respect on the open roads we need to show respect and follow rules of the road and not take the entire lane. Sadly, I see it each week as I usually do 2 fast (race oriented) group rides. In my area there are a number of sort of strong riders but, they honestly don’t have a long history or experience riding. They still are sort of in the mode of “this is a race” and let ego dictate how they ride. Hell even in races guys look after each other more than some of these racy group rides.
As for the OP: Crossing the yellow=never. Putting in a good effort down hills? I guess if the ride has neutral sections then follow the rules of that ride. If not it’s just maddeningly hypocritical of the riders who drop the hammer up every little incline but, don’t want guys to do the same when the road goes down.
Former national champs rides one ride I do and has tried w/o much luck to get the group to ride more safely and with others in mind. It’s amazing to see the push back he gets. Cross wind/echelons are a huge problem as they drift into traffic too much. People attacking at dangerous points in the road is another. Riders getting to the front and not working (even if to pull through and keep it fast and safe) is another. I don’t think anything will change anytime soon.
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Agreed…
And there is definitely a disconnect between fanning out across the double yellow, but scolding riders for descending too fast. However, there may have been similar comments made to the echeloning riders that we are unaware of.
Anyway…my group ride rules are - introduce yourself, udnerstand the ride, don’t be a d*ck and have fun. If you do those things, you’ll get along OK. 
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I know it’s been said a bunch already, but I’ve seen too many cyclists killed or maimed, and now with a young family, my viewpoint is different to what it used to be. The fact that other riders, or that it’s the group norm, won’t make your family feel any better if you get hit on the wrong side of the road.
Other than that OP, you sound like a switched on dude, with enough power to hang. You’re asking the right questions and you’ll pick up heaps as you go.
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