This is what has stopped me sticking to a TR plan in the past, especially in the summer. If I go to my favourite place to ride with my SO and male friends I need an easy week to recover (53year old female). Then I have to fit in TT and local xc races (let’s hope this will be the case next year).
When I’m riding outside I’m concentrating on the terrain rather than trying to complete a work out, especially with so many people out walking now.
And yet I hear all the good stuff about how sticking to a TR plan consistently helps people get faster.
I’m currently recovering from a major operation and can’t train until December. So I’m thinking I’ll focus for 3 Months on a TR base plan - my favourite places to ride will be too muddy then any way and there won’t be any races.
It’s not really a fair assessment, as I will be starting from 0, so it’s more of an N=1 experiment. It may be that consistent TR training becomes a 4-5 month winter thing…
Depends what you’re doing in those 4 hours…and how accurate your FTP is 
Also depends if you’re rd or MTB. Sometimes you have to do repeated hard climbs to enjoy the descents on a MTB. And I want to do those. It’s the reason I ride.
Ah. One of those guys.
If you can execute a weeks worth of scheduled trainerroad workouts and add 8 hours of outdoors riding on top of that at the weekend no problem then you are definitely a superstar and you have pretty much no clue as to what the rest of us mortals go through.
Bravo.
In my club, the Saturday group is definitely easier than the Sunday. Due to family circumstances/ children’s sports squeezed in. I condensed my workout week, and had Saturday and Monday rest. Perhaps that could be an approach to try? Back to back a couple of the hard work outs, drop an endurance workout or go “recess”.
fwiw, my n=1 last year with only kinda following the plan/ having consistency issues and I swapped the “hard” workout for the Satuday spin, I was blowing up on the Sunday spins. This summer I was holding my own following the plan and (partly due to covid) being very consistent. Anyway, just what worked for me this summer. Back to Saturday’s now, I’ll do MV and have Saturday as my “moderate” workout.
After that, everyone has to prioritise what their own goals are. If outdoor rides are more important, and that hard, treat them as a “hard” workout, mark them as outside and move on?
Personally, I’m process goal driven and sticking with the plan works for me. Group riding, in my club, can be so dependent on who’s out, their legs, route it used to mess with me head if the plan said had and it turned into a pootle. This summer, once it was allowed, group spins were all about the social interaction/ out of the house and I really enjoyed them more! But that is most definitely just me, not you, or anyone else.
Can you just rejig the week and make Monday a rest/easy/recovery day and have Tuesday be the first day of doing a hard TR workout instead?
I’d like to but Tuesday + Thursdays are absolute no-go’s for me due to other life things.
Ah. Only things I can offer then are:
- Hammer on Saturdays instead
- Do TR workout Monday evening to give yourself an extra ~12 hours of recovery
- Go to town on recovery stuff on Sunday. Nutrition, rehydration, foam rolling, power nap, go to bed early, etc
All of which potentially aren’t possible depending on life stuff as well! I’ve been in the same boat and if it helps I’ve always chosen to prioritise the fun outdoor weekend ride first and then do what I can to fit the structured training around it. Has probably cost me a bit of fitness in the short term, but it’s kept me enjoying the sport and sticking at it so figure in the long term I’m ahead 
@cowboyjon reading this through again, I think your real question is:
“What’s the point of building this fitness if I’m not really going to use it.”
That’s a little different than “I need to quit training to enjoy riding outside”, so correct me if I’m wrong in my re-read.
Ultimately, I’m in the same place as you. I don’t ride with many people. I’m usually solo or with one other person that is much slower than me. I have plenty of fitness to spare in any of those situations.
It becomes tempting to do the runner’s system.
- I’m going to train to run a 5k
- Now I’m going to train to run a half marathon
- Now I’m going to train to run a full marathon
At some point, you start to say…“well, I did everything, now what”. Then you start to try to run faster. Except, with cycling, that faster usually involves being around more people and traveling with a bike to big events and lots of other complexities.
So, what’s the answer to your question? Be fit to be fit. Use TR because you like it and it forces you out of your comfort zone a few times a week. Don’t worry about the “consistency is key” stuff. That’s true if you want to crush it at a race, but really, you just want to be fit. Let TR do that when it can and ride outside when you want.
That’s ultimately the answer. Ride outside WHEN and HOW you want, then fit TR around that to make those outside rides easier.
You’re not far off with that assumption fella, great answer!
But wait, there’s some valuable work you are getting done hammering it during the weekend ride. Use that as your foundation workout and add the missing pieces either with shorter outdoor sessions or TR indoor during the weekdays. H
Well, I’m lucky. I have lots of all sorts of terrain from loops where they race crits to short 1-3 minute steep climbs to 3-6 percent grade long climbs all within 10-15 minute ride from my house or office. I choose depending on the interval intensity and length. Sometimes I choose poorly as I’m still learning. Gear choice is also important and I’m constantly shifting and modifying cadence. I could do all the workouts on the crit tracks, but the turns and wind make some of them very tough to complete accurately. Best for me is a steady 4% grade hill as I can do any workout on them. I even slow my cadence way down In lowest gearing and can recover at 100 watts without turning around if I want doing short intense VO2 max intervals. Terrain helps, but I find it possible to get a good workout on anything from flat to 6% grade. For 1 min on 1 min off intervals, I use a short 17% climb in my neighborhood.
So, not sure if this is a wanted perspective, and I’ve noticed that most people in this thread have explicitly stated that they’re not racing… I’m a Cat 2 (US) racer who’s pretty competitive and looking to complete my Cat 1 upgrade next year while competing at national championships.
But, here’s my outlook on managing TR workouts and riding outdoors/enjoying riding (keeping in mind I live in the Midwest):
- Whenever the temps get too low (usually Nov - Mar) I’m on the trainer, doing only my prescribed time for the workouts. Usually riding MV numbers (6-10 hours). There are some weeks where I’ll add in more volume (up to 20ish hours/week) but those are weeks where I’m off work completely.
- Once I’m back to riding outside regularly (10-15 hours) and racing nearly every weekend, I only ever touch the trainer due to inclement weather. I use outdoor workouts, focusing on nailing the intervals throughout my ride.
- For something like a 60-90m workout, my outdoor rides range anywhere from 2-3 hours, with the first half being the intervals and the rest being just riding to enjoy riding. The 2 hour workouts are usually fitted into 3-4 hour rides with the same approach.
- In pre-covid times, if I was doing a group ride, depending on the ride’s intensity, I’ll do my intervals before/after the group ride.
- For example: 90m race pace drop ride scheduled on the same day as 4x10 SST intervals. I’ll either do the intervals before the ride, or split them up and do 2 before the ride and 2 after finishing the ride. This has the increased benefit of learning how my body reacts to still having to do work while fatigued from other efforts on the same ride. It also lets me add in more volume.
- If I’m on a recovery day and doing a group ride, I’ll make sure it’s no drop pace, and I’ll make it a priority to sit in the group and avoid significant efforts. If the pace picks up too much, I have no qualms about dropping off the back of the group and riding at my own intended pace.
- Obviously races replace the weekend workouts. If the race is on a Saturday, it means openers on Friday. Sunday races see openers on Saturday.
There are absolutely times I don’t feel like following my workouts, and because I am generally so vigilant with my training, it allows me to have a day here or there where I just skip the workout and do what I want riding wise (or even skip it entirely should i need/want to).
How much TSS are you stacking into your weekend ride(s) and how much is it relative to your weekly TSS?
There are other threads around where I see people wondering why they are feeling fatigued after a 300-350TSS ride over the weekend. And they are doing LV, so its like 50%+ of their weekly TSS in one ride. This is what @super7 was getting at in the post you appeared to take offense with. If someone obliterates themself every weekend they need to set realistic expectations about how much recovery will be required and how subsequent workouts will feel. 300+TSS in one ride would leave me feeling completely obliterated.
You aren’t alone (certainly not if you take into consideration most of the responses). 
I previously tried, and dropped trainerroad (more than once) because of this same issue. It’s also been raised elsewhere that the ‘sweet spot’ plans aren’t all that sweet. The mid has two threshold and two sweet spot workouts per week.
I think it would be interesting if TR had banding of fatigue. endurance, ss/threshold, vo2/max fatigue. And each workout could sort of classify that. Then you could sort of mix/match based upon your outdoor plans. Like a zwift race is 1 hour of threshold…etc.
For me the only way it would work would be to drop some sweet spot. Because endurance rides can generally be ridden with a decent amount of fatigue. (for me anyway).
Good summary of your approach @TheCyclissimo.
During that Nov-Mar period, how often would you have a 20hr week in there? A handful of times or more regularaly?
At the moment, I am unable to ride outside in a meaningful way due to Melbourne’s Covid19 2hr limit outside and within 5km from home (It is torture!) so I am taking the same approach to you, albeit, still inside on the trainer. If the session is 60-90min then the ride on the trainer is around 2hrs because I throw in a bit of extra jam and listen to a podcast or something. Once these restrictions ease, and I am able to be outside for longer and more than 5km from home, I will more than likely take the same approach but do the workouts outside and add the extra’s on outside etc.
I like that you have the ego control to know your limits and what you are riding for on particular days and have no qualms about slipping off the back if it is a recovery ride. Great constraint shown! I think a lot of riders would have trouble with that. The temptation to increase the watts - even a little over what is intended - is too much.
I would hardly say i’m unique, all i’m saying is the name of the game is managing fatigue/intensity/recovery. Are you’re TR Zones correct?
This is my issue with low volume plans, for endurance sports, you need to be doing more volume and consistency than they offer.
Your mates are right but only to an extent. Group rides are about more than just the power you have, it’s about knowing where to be, when to move etc. I’m terrible at group rides right now because I don’t have enough experience in them despite being able to just hold on power-wise. I’m relying on my legs, not my head and instinct.
However if it weren’t for TR I seriously doubt I would be in that group in the first place after just a year of training.
Point being:
structured training is an EFFICIENT way of getting you faster
There’s a lot to be gained by going out and riding with fast groups. The feeling of being dropped alone can super charge your training motivation for the next 12 months
This is a great thread, I had the same thoughts last year when I went all in on following TR plans all winter with barely any outdoor riding. Whereas before I just wanted to be fit enough to beat my mates or my own times up hills, now I was too scared to even go up those hills as it didn’t fit my plan.
Still not found a proper solution (although I like @cartsman tips) but ultimately because of hours I have available (or lack of) I get drawn more to TR just for the efficiency of improvement.
It’s only a handful of times, because I’m a teacher in the states, we get longer breaks for holidays, so usually my super high volume weeks during base are the week of Thanksgiving, two weeks we get off for Christmas, and Spring Break.
I have some friends down in Melb and they’re doing something similar. I guess we’re fortunate in the US that it hasn’t gotten that strict with lockdown (but unfortunate in every other aspect…) where I can still go ride wherever. I don’t ever really make any stops though, try to stay as isolated as possible.
It’s really hard honestly, but if you’re trying to keep your performance level high, you have to really build the restraint and know when it is and isn’t time to push it. This is one of the things I see in a lot of newer/more amateur riders/racers, they just don’t know when to go easy, and when they do it’s still way too intense for the purpose of recovery.
Topic of restraint weaves in so nicely with this thread.
It really is hard, especially in the early days.
As a competitive person there is always a struggle of having to be proving something to myself or to others. Very hard to unplug and put it down, especially during a recovery or Z2 ride. Whether group or solo.
But one day it finally clicked that in order to do what’s best for myself I have to stick to the plan. Proving things to myself turned into setting expectations on myself. And that got me comfortable with not having to make everything a battle with everyone all the time. Just sometimes when it matters. Maybe that’s called discipline.
Secondly, in a race (not directly related to recovery), if I can’t read the situation of the field or myself, then that triggers a natural fight or flight response. Almost always that is spraying watts at the problem (just like that recovery ride gone wrong), and learning from the consequences if the results don’t pan out. Eventually you learn from these episodes. Which build into experience that allows you to read future situations more calmly.
The themes from both scenarios came down to self-awareness and being comfortable in my own skin.
I’m actually not sure how to speed up these types of learnings. I think it’s very difficult to teach it directly. And sometimes, doing so robs the inexperienced cyclist of the opportunity to fail and learn from it first hand.
I suppose there is so much value to learn by doing.