Extending time at FTP - 1 hour power as % of FTP

304W FTP, based on highest average power for 20’ (320W) in a 23’30" Zwift TT on Tempus Fugit.
Averaged 317W for the entire duration (had a mental dip after 20’ but ramped up again for the last 1’30" haha).

A week later I did a 67’ “road race” on Zwift and averaged 285W, 292W NP. Went early at 5-600m to go and held 550-600W to the line. Wasn’t all-out for the entire duration because of tactics and group dynamics. 295-300W should definitely have been possible if needed.

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So you honestly believe that everyone’s ftp is the same percentage of their 1 min max from a ramp test? That is just a starting point, and the evidence here suggests it is set too high.

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So you mean the ramp test may not present your ftp?

I have been doing 20mins tests for 2 years to see my ftp. But this season i will try to do it by doing ramp test (easy to repeat and less demandin’ etc.). But if it is not true estimation, then i should go with 20 mins again. :frowning:

I thought my comment made it pretty obvious I think the ramp test is baloney.

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While i can tell now you’re being sarcastic, there are many who will argue till blue in the face that the testing number is appropriate.

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20 minute test protocol is better than a ramp test but still not great. Have a read of this article:

Then if you’re brave enough take a dive into the corresponding thread on here:

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Hence my popcorn emoji :wink:

Oh yeah, its like one of those ftp does not equal hour power arguments. Very strong opinions on either side.

Thanks. This highlighted some areas of improvement for me since it made me realise that I’ve never held FTP power for more than about 15 minutes!

In fact, in nearly all cases across my seasons, my longest duration at FTP is always set during a ramp test.

Probably as a result of focusing usually on shorter v02 max efforts, and also sticking strictly to the TR plan with any outdoor rides usually in Z2.

EDIT:

Scratch that, I found a TT I did last year where I held my FTP power for 28 mins. I don’t do many steady state rides like that!

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Lol

don’t get caught up in a vocabulary argument, Thunderpants. You understand what you have to do 100%. Quibbling over the exact definition of FTP won’t help your progress. ;-D

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I think it will. Even if you can complete your workouts, overestimating your FTP quickly leads to stagnation. That’s why an “extend your TTE” focus is often very effective - it requires training at at or slightly below true FTP, rather than above.

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I have a low (for my size) ftp - Last time I tested it came in about 215.
I set it to 220 as I thought I’m just shit with tests

I focus on endurance and HR:Pw rather than just on raising my FTP

My best 1hr power came on a virtual climb of the Stilvio where I managed 216 watts for the climb.
This was a low cadence grind and I would have not been able to get my fat arse up it at any less :laughing: It still took me almost 2hrs to get to the top

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Yes it’s an estimate. Figure out what gives you a better estimate. What works for me may not work well at estimating for you. And it’s widely accepted that FTP can be held from 35-70 minutes, so how long you can hold it isn’t strictly 1 hour.

The only point I try to make clear is that ramp tests estimate 5-min power at vo2max (max aerobic capacity). And your FTP as % of vo2max can change due to training. So just keep that in mind if a ramp test gives strange results.

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And that’s all I really care about. The actual number is meaningless to me. Or how “accurate” it is by using whatever “best” testing protocol there is. The ramp test has given me good numbers to train with and I’m seeing progress by using that number. The ramp test FTP is actually a good bit lower than both Xert and Intervals.icu. And it gives me good numbers to train with.

They’ve said on the podcast many times that FTP and one hour power may not match for most people. That’s why one of my goals this winter is to extend TTE. I don’t really feel like arguing semantics. Just thought it was an interesting topic to see what other’s training/power durations were.

Your FTP isn’t what the ramp test says it is either.

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You may at first, but long term you will make more progress if you set it to 285-290 watts.

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@old_but_not_dead_yet I appreciate your thoughts on this matter! Herr Kapitan has it exactly correct when he observes that the work rate he can hold for 1hr << 75% of MAP: work harder at holding a constant work rate for the largest portion of an hour.

His understanding of the situation is perfect. Quibbling over exactly what is FTP will not help even a little. Further, if Thunderpants is consistent at working at his work I judge he is very likely to have a lot of success. It’s gonna be a lot of fun for him.

Hopefully a year from now we’ll be in another thread arguing about what exactly VO2max is while CaptainThunderpants is deciding his hour TTE has hit a lid & he needs to do a VO2 block. ;-D

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Thank you for your valuable insight

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TR workouts are based on 75% of MAP. That’s the end of it.

You’ve been around enough to see many, many riders that can’t hold 75% of MAP for an hour. The solution is exactly what @CaptainThunderpants supposes it is. :smiley: I’m just saying this is kinda an open-and-shut case. Let’s not confuse the matter by quibbling over semantics. Here we have a rider who has identified an issue and decided on a good way to resolve it. Way to go, rider!

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