While I did find it a little strange that he considered a 3 zone model, I think one of the things he mentioned was that autonomic (?) nervous system stress starts to accumulate above zone 1 in a 3 zone model, while there is relatively little ANS stress in zone 1. I could be mis-remembering that though.
Sounds like that could end bad for TR
This is false. Just search the myriad discussions about training with power in this forum to find the litany of reasons heart rate is inferior.
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True and I would not want that, but the entertainment value would be so high.
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I feel that Amber would get the best out of Chad 
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He uses a 3 zone model because he is currently enamored with Seiler who also uses a 3 zone model.
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rightā¦ so does doing 5 intervals per week is the right thing to do.
what does that have to do with training with power vs. training with heart rate?
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Because you are saying that something is correct just because itās written on this forum.
Yeah, I have very little interest in peopleās beliefs / conclusions about science (or any complicated issue) if they canāt clearly state the most prominent arguments against their position, the weaknesses in their own evidence, and the tradeoffs involved in their decisions.
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I get this a lot from guys in my cycling club. I think the answer for me is that digging into all this stuff (training plans, power meters, all of it) just enhances my enjoyment of the sportā¦most of the time.
(This thread notwithstanding 
LOL).
But yeah, riding the bikes FTW. Wonder if anybody on this thread knows how fast you are @Captain_Doughnutman (or at least, used to beā¦not sure).
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Snap! One word is all Coach Chad needs 
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Maybe. I, personally, donāt care either way.
I just thought it interesting that SS isnāt considered āintenseā in a 5 zone model because its below threshold and the physical stress is easy-ish to recovery from, where it a 3 zone it could be considered āintenseā based on the approximate alignment of when nervous system stress starts build with the zone 1/2 boundary.
Serious Question, Why keep paying for trainer road?
Without using plan builder or pre made plans, itās just a trainer resistance controller, There are free apps that will do that, Or even a head unit you probably already have. I guess if you donāt have training-peaks already or a head unit, Itās not like its crazy expensive.
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As both a TR subscriber (62 year old SSB LV) and regular Dylan Johnson viewer, my first reaction when I saw that Dylan came out with his video was to not watch it, because I didnāt want it to spoil my love for TR. Then I decided to watch the video, and I must say, Dylan makes some good points, particularly concerning the mid and high volume plans. At age 62, I have recently struggled even with the low volume, and think I will substitute one of the three SS-threshold-VO2 max rides a week for a long endurance ride. One thing I wish TR would do is acknowledge more that there are (much) older riders out there that want to be as good as they can be too.
What I would really love to see happen though is this: TR folks and Dylan get together privately and talk about this issue fairly and cordially, out of the limelight, at least at first, and agree to acknowledge that both parties have good things to offer (maybe they already have or are planning to?). Then both parties be totally open and transparent to us as far as their motivations and goals. Be honest as to what role marketing might play with each āsideā, and openly reaffirm that both camps are lightyears better than unstructured riding- if you want to get better, that is.
Please, please TR and Dylan hear this- use this as an opportunity to come together (on a human level, not from a business perspective), and not to further drive yourselves (and therefore us) apart! I suspect the vast majority of us love and respect you both. Youāll be amazed what coming together can achieve for all of us!
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I cannot believe this thread is still going.
Would somebody ā anybody ā actually go look at the catalog of SAP, and just count how many interviews the TR staff have done specifically targeting LOW VOLUME successful athletes?
P-L-E-N-T-Y
These guys arenāt blind to the realities of their plan volume or life as a middle-age/masters cyclist. They get it, and thatās they vlog about it.
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Is Dylan really more qualified than Nate though?
- Dylan has coach certification, Nate doesnāt. To me personally a piece of paper means nothing
- They both have access to the science on this
- Nate has big data on his side, Dylan does not. Nateās sample size is literally thousands upon thousands.
- Nate has Coach Chad, and a staff of enthusiatic cyclist looking at the data and formulating hypotheses every now and then (as he alluded to in one of the last podcasts)
I donāt know, but I believe Nate actually has the winning team in this comparison
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Good question. Taking the training plans out of the equation, they have a very nice collection of ready made workouts and a good calendar. However, unless you have a grandfathered rate, TR is just too expensive on a relative basis if you donāt ascribe any value to the training plans. Sufferfest offers training videos, advanced approaches to testing, yoga and strength workouts (and Neal Henderson for credibility). Xert offers a cutting edge AI-like platform for tracking and prescribing training, although it might be a bit overwhelming for a beginner. To be fair, TR is a more functional and polished software. But it is almost 50% more expensive than Sufferfest and 90% more expensive than Xert.
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Totally agreeā¦the masterās level plans are way overdueā¦they have been talked about for a long while but never materializedā¦
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