Do I resubscribe?

same here

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I was also a SportTracks user for several years (desktop and web) when I was taking Tri quite seriously, but these days I’m mostly a cyclist who occasionally runs … so now I just use Garmin Connect as my central log of all activities (and TR for the bike training, obvs…)

There used to be a way to see the old plans that you participated in. I had forgotten about that, but can’t seem to find the old plans. I do recall the change in base, but can’t remember much about when that change took place, nor what the old workouts looked like.

Ouch. GC is, how could I say this, very good value for the money? Considering it’s free, that is. :hugs: Main issues for me are a) the absence of analytics, and b) an awful UI (the team that developed it must have moved to Zwift afterward or something).

Plus I have a Withings scale, and Garmin does not like that at all. That’s not what they wanted me to buy.

The only way I have found them recently is by going back in my library and seeing what workouts I completed

When they first released the new plans the old plans were still available, but I couldn’t find them last time I went back and looked

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changes were documented, here is the master thread with links for specific plan changes:

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Thanks, not quite the same for what I was referring to. I was actually referencing plans that went back about 5 years. I do recall a change way before 2018. We used to be able to pull up the plans and actually add them to be executed, as long as you had done the old plan you could re-do the old plan repeatedly.

Yeah, I’ve always had Garmin watches and bike computers, and my needs aren’t that advanced (especially as I’m not having to juggle swim, bike and run any more) so GC is fine for me to keep a history of what I’ve been up to.

And I don’t find the UI nearly as bad as Zwift’s :grinning:

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hi,

same struggle here: continue for 99$ or cancel?

I am not preparing for any event, never actually participated in an event. I work out to stay in shape, and i do it indoors for time reasons: with a job, two little kids and a beautiful wife I dont want to spend hours of hours per week somewhere out there.
I want to sit on my Kickr focused and use the limited time to workout as efficient as possible.

I did a little test last month: I have not done a workout on TR for a month now, instead used my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt to simulate tracks I imported via Komoot. These tracks are reallife tracks I once in a while during holidays actually drove and synched them via Komoot.

So there are steep climb tracks, some flat leisure track, a couple of mixed up and down tracks - all of them addressing my various effort zones. Lots of variety, lots of demanding challenges, and after a month I feel quite some training effect as well.

I am struggling:

  • what is the real advantage of TR to riding outdoor tracks synced to my Element Bolt to control my Kickr with all their diversity, climbs, hills, downhills, etc? All of my rides and synced trips adress the same muscles, zones etc as TR does, maybe even closer to real life?

  • how do I make more of TR as a amateur non-competing timeconstraiked hobby rider? I feel overwhelmed with the plans. Speciality wears me out, Base seems to give me always the same workouts, and there are so many more I have never even seen. Base on Low Level is not enough, Mid and High Level is a huge jump - I cant ride 1:30-2:00 hours a couple of times per week, even dont want to. Time crunched 45 is very demanding and wears me down.
    Also in Build Phase the jump from Low ro Mid/High seems huge.

And no matter what Plan I use I feel I end up with the same Workout most of the time. The plan builder does not give me the chance to define the length of individual workouts. It lets me define the amount of hours I ride per week. So mostly I end up with a plan giving me 3-4x 1:30-2:00 hours rides again instead of 5x45-60 min.

So my point:

TR does disregard a huge bunch of users in its interests: regular, time crunched workouts, really adjustable plans in all its variaty, and not the aim to wear you down in order to make you better - that is not necessarily our aim.
I feel overwelmed by all the provided information: Zones, pedaling techniques, over/under, VOmax etc… I have switched off the inride-information as it just confuses me, detracts me from my rythm, constantly signals me to look at the smartphone. I dont want nor need to, i switched it off - and with that I feel like I am missing the point of TR.

What is the consequence:

I am overwhelmed by the amount of workouts, dont know how to put them together to a reasonable plan myself, would like to trust a plan as it is and be disciplined by the calender to follow it.

But eventually I ask myself way to often while riding: Wow, this is so intense, is that what I wanted, doesnt it destroy me for days, am I motivated enough to do the next upcoming workout.

Mostly I have felt the need to cancel or delete a plan I put in my calender after just a couple of workouts and try it again with a different plan, which I felt overwhelmed by again later - either in effort or in time consumed by it.

I would like to stick with TR. It helped me so much for two years now.

But it seems it is more focusing on the semi-pro-thriatlet superrider than at the average-joe-father-with-to-kids-a-job-and-less-time-and-knowledge-for-all-these-workouts and-infos.

Right now I feel like cancelling and just workout with my Komoot/Bolt setup. I will miss the automated, disciplining idea of plans implemented in my calendar…

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Well, because at that point you’re just ‘going for a ride,’ and 'going for rides isn’t the most efficient way to get fitter. I’ve seen more gains in the past 10mos on TR than 9 years of ‘just going for a ride.’ Structure works, if you can put the effort in / don’t mind the intensity. And I’m not speaking to defend TR, as much as I am defending structured training at large, TR or not.

Serious question, and I’m not speaking from a position of defending TR here:
What do you want instead? Because TR is structured training. If you don’t want structured training, that’s fine, you can just go ride your bike. But TR’s schtick is “We’ll get you faster,” and structure is the way to do that, other than “go ride in Z2 a LOT.”

So again, serious question, I’m just not sure what other option exists. I would like to see options that are maybe less sweet spot, time-crunched focused, but even then, that would basically be a HV plan or a MV with a lot of added Z2. If MV is too much for you, you could do an LV plan and add endurance rides to your content.

Ultimately though, while it may not sound like it, I can’t say I disagree with you. More options are always better than fewer options.

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Very good points, thank you.

I am in favour of structured workouts, no question. I have been a licensed tennis coach for many years: just playing matches will not make you better… it is the focused training of your strokes erc that does… same thing here - i get that.

But still: the plans are too demanding for many of us, in effort level (ok, that depends on your FTP and you can lower that) but mostly in time and intesity.
Yes, I can customize them by adding, deleting workouts, adjust the variation of the workout (-1, -2) etc, even adjust during workouts.
But then I am left alone in this huge jungle of workouts, variants, zones etc. I would just like to rely on a plan and go for it.

I would just wish there would be some “structured workout plan LITE” for guys like me (and probably many many others)

The time constraint plans are not helpful - they are very demanding.

Low volume plans are <4h a week and if you can’t manage one of those, I would just ride for fun and accept that structured training with the aim of progressive overload isn’t for you.

Enjoying riding, in whatever form, is the important thing!

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I could manage 4-6 hours or even more per week easily and am willing to.
But 4-6 hours per week on TR are split up in 2-3 times 90min… why is there no way to have a prestructured plan or even a chance to adjust the plan builder to offer 4-5 times 45-60min?

I am in favour of structured training, and want to do it. But I believe that structured training should be offered also for less ambitious riders like me - which I feel is a huge bunch of people willing to support TR, but feel left out.

Split the longer rides in two…?

For example, Antelope on wk 2 of SSBLV is 90 min SS intervals with 96 TSS - use the workout library to find a 45 min SS workout with approx 48 TSS and repeat over Sat/Sun…? Follow same approach for the other weekend workouts.

I wouldn’t get hung up on exact workout/interval structure, focus on progression and Time in Zone.

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True, these are possibilities, but:

the idea of prestructured plans is that they give average-joe guys like me a good feeling of following the right path, being guided trough it, not having to search for alternatives of which I dont know if they are right for me.

Naturally I could browse all these workouts and put something together. But am I a coach? Do I know what I am doikg? Can I trust in my own plan? Do I know about effort levels, zones, effect of those on my body and longterm effects? No. And I dont want to dig in too deep. i did that 20y ago. Now as a 43y old with family and not much free time I cant and dont want to spent time adjusting all that. Nor would I feel competent to do so.

One might say: nothing to be done wrong here, just do it, any kind of workout will help you… right.

But this is the point: then a user with my profile does not need TR at all.

And that makes TR loose such a big group of possible subscribers and supports, who are willing to follow structured workout but dont have the time, knowledge or motivation to dig in so deep into all that.

(and loosing us means others have to pay more :slight_smile:

You could always post the plan here. This form is awash with coaches and people willing to help. Probably about 10 min work to identify alternative <60 min weekend alternatives for checking by the forum community.

Repeat for every plan (i.e., SSBLV1/2, Build, Specialty), that’s around 2h total planning work spread out over a year (or whatever).

If you wanted to do it, it could be done very easily.

Or the even simpler solution, just stop riding after 45 min on a Sunday…

you think so, easily? I dont see it that way.

  1. there is a jungle of workouts i can filter, ok, will do
  2. i put up some kind of structure without knowing about the zones, effort levels etc
  3. i put it up here and wait
  4. and then i will get plenty of constructive and great hints what to adjust or what to skip, where to add and where to reduxe - great, really appreciated
  5. but there will be disagreeing views, liads of discussion, disagreement leaving me alone in the decision which path to follow
  6. with all due respect: I pay TR because I get some guarantee that there are professional coaches behind all that, getting paid, being educated in all that. As much as I can see plenty of expertise in these boards, amazing indeed, I dont know any of you, dont know at all who has what background, is qualified to really work out such plans - and who just claims to.

So:
I am prepared to pay TR money for such guarantee of high level advise. But at this point they dont offer me something suitable for my profile as somebody who wants to be a fit rider but does not compete or necessarily want to push boundaries all the time.

To put it into Tennis context:
I can tell people - just work on your forehand… yeah, but how? Whats the right stroke, angle, grip? They need guidance.
But they dont need guidance 5 times a week abd tournaments on weekends. They just need some lessons once in a while.
They want to become better players… and they will still become better players, not fast, not best, but better.

Same here: I dont need to become “faster” - a nice slogan. I want to be giuded to follow the right workout in my special need.

And eventually (as the posts here show) my need is not so special after all.

I think you’ve made your mind up…

As above, your special requirement is, I think, no session longer than 60 min. This is so easily done, in fact I’l do it for you. What plan do you want to follow?

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That is where it starts: I dont know. Do I know if Base, Build or Speciality is right? In fact I see many workouts being the same in all of them. So where is the difference?
For somebody like you all this seems so natural. For me it is not.

i know that there are plenty of great people around here who would help people like me - very appreciated, also your offer! thanks.

But we are not discussing my special plan here in this thread.

We are discussing if to extend a TR subscription.

And my point is that TR is loosing plenty of (quite solvent) customers willing to stay subscribers because they dont offer much for us.

I would even claim:
TR would be better off expanding their offer of plans and guidance for guys like me with my job/family/dontneedtobesuperfast need.

And not expanding, maybe even reducing their offer of plans for Thriatlets and ambitious cyclists… many of those guys do put together their own plans anyway… have plenty of knowledge and know how to customize their training to their very specific needs.

I do not, I cant.

I need a prestructured offer and guidance. At this point this is not there in TR

You don’t need to follow a plan, i use workout creator a lot, which lets you create your own program which is more focused on specific goals/strengths/weaknesses.

IMO TR plans are really geared towards those with limited training experience/knowledge.

i keep my sub since its a good tool for completing workouts, not because of the plans. Analysis is also pretty good.

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