Same here… 
Maybe it is not an FTP issue, but a training issue… My thought !! After the base training, you can take a full week recovery, then start the build with an ftp that is 10-15 W lower and start your plan. When intervals (over/unders) feels too hard, lower ftp when it is too easy, raise ftp to correct number. keep following the plan, but try to find the correct ftp spot. My personal opinion is also that a ramp test is for indoor testing and a 20min test is for outdoors. What also could be the case sometimes is that when riding indoors, you have a different geo set-up vs your outdoor bike you ride and uses different muscles (specially the tiny ones) which make you fail earlier in the interval.
You could use max HR, but it’s problematic and nuanced. For example, I don’t even know what my max heart rate is right now. And even if it is known, reaching your max HR at the last few seconds of an interval isn’t necessarily an all-out effort. But being pegged at max HR early on in an interval most likely is all out. Chad’s scale is all RPE-based, which might be a more helpful gauge.
If you have done a couple of ramp tests you probably have a good idea what your max heart rate is (might be off by 1-3 beats/min) and if you always underperformed and never came close to your max HR you probably wouldn’t struggle so much during ssb2
Yea…I know from years of racing and training it’s low 190s…192-194 or so.
Just so I understand…are you suggesting I artificially lower my ftp for workouts?
I guess one way or another it doesnt truly matter…I think the end result of all this is basically I’m working too hard/digging too deep on a lot of workouts. This is probably keeping the system from dialing back things until it’s too late.
So i guess i’ll basically…work less hard haha.
As an aside, I’ve yet to “fail” any TR workout since AT was introduced. I think this is down to a number of things:
- AT prescribing workouts with a more appropriate difficulty and in more measured progression steps vs. pre-AT fixed plans which ramped a bit randomly and occasoinally in giant steps!
- me occasionally replacing a prescribed workout with one I thought better fitted with how I actually felt that day, and Workout Levels (WLs) providing me with the tool to choose something well calibrated to how I was feeling; WLs may be a simple innovation but one that’s hugely useful IMO
- the combination of the above ensuring the ramp rate of my plan remained appropriate and measured rather than erratic
The result for me, I feel, has been more consistent and steadier progression, avoiding blow ups as might happen of old, and let me raise volume a bit without too much fatigue setting in.
Something I’ve noticed when from time-to-time I look at the “All Rides” tab of a Workout I’ve completed is that plenty of other TR users seem to give Survey Responses that seem to understate how difficult they must’ve found their workout. eg. I can see that people have had to pause/backpedal a threshold interval numerous times, and pause ever more times as the Workout progresses, yet have given only a “Hard” survey response to what I’d class as “All Out”. Highly anecdotal, but on the workouts where I’ve had a bit of a look at this a good proportion (1/4-1/3?) fell into this category. Seems like a recipe for being continually served up workouts that are a touch too intense, which if left uncorrected could take its toll over time.
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Thanks again all. This, in a nutshell, seems to be suggesting overall that I shouldnt be digging so deep to finish workouts so often. I think I can make the necessary adjustments for that…I’ve got anpretty good sense of the distinction between “hard” and “flogging myself.” Seems I should be making sure 90%+ are in the first category…not the second.
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Oh, one last thought…how often are you guys either dialing back workouts, skipping them, or changing them based on how you feel that day?
I ask because a couple years ago…I had a coach for a season, and he mentioned offhandedly that I was one of the most disciplined people he’d ever seen at sticking to a plan and hitting workouts.
I didnt think much of it at the time…but in retrospect…I wonder if also part of what’s going on is I’m just forcing myself through workouts I really have no business doing on days I dont feel great.
I ‘favourite’ the above screenshot so it’s readily accessible in my phone photos. If in doubt, I double-check it before responding.
Yea someone posted something similar earlier, which was a big eye opener for me. I’d sort of assumed most workouts should be a fight to the death with the trainer. If the trainer didnt win, it didnt get ‘very hard.’ 
I’m in the same age/weight/power category as many above. I can get 3 1-hr rides in midweek and a fast, racey 3-hr small group ride on Saturdays.
I’m coming back from several months mostly off due to Epstein Barr, COVID and more.
This time, instead of focusing on FTP, I’ve focused on extending time to fatigue. As a result, I’m not getting my old 300w FTP back super quickly but damn, it’s nice to be able to hold SS for longer than I could before.
Now that I can do 2x22 @94% with a 2-min break, next week I’ll do a 1x45min @92-94% effort. I’m working towards a 1x1hr effort, focusing on that instead of my FTP. It’s been paying dividends big time.
However, next weekend I’ll get a new AiFTP number and we’ll see if that sets me back a step or two in this lengthening progression, it probably will. But, I’ll just keep building back towards that solid hour of 94%.
This bloke is better at explaining it.
All that being said, I’ll start adding in threshold and VO2 in April. I use my hard weekend group ride to get some of that in now but it’s not enough to build with.
I bring this extending SS view up because it may help mitigate fatigue from threshold burn out. It carries its own risks and downsides, too, though. Just another approach for one part of a season.
For doing this type of Sweetspot progression you might find the SS90 Workout Library contained within the “More Sweet Spot! Workouts” Team to be useful. Works for me.
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I haven’t read the other comments but this happened to me as well, SSBLV 2 was markedly more difficult than SSBLV 1. The issue for me was that the plan progressed too fast for my adaptation. I’m a very low responder to aerobic stimulus and finishing SSBLV 1 was difficult in of itself, SSBLV2 was virtually impossible.
As for adaptive training, it should work in theory but in my experience, AT wasn’t able to account for my weak aerobic base to properly adapt my training. Of course this was when I was basing my FTP off the ramp test which was wildly over-inflating my FTP by 15%+.
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Just checking in here…I’ll give a grander update after I’ve finished a training block or 2.
After the better part of 2 weeks…having dropped ftp 23 watts and restarting SSB1…this feels soooo easy lol. I’m sure this is a relative and not absolute feeling, but based on how I feel after 2 weeks…this seems noticeably different. I’ll check back in when I’ve got fitness gains/losses to compare to.
Do you have power on your CX bike, or have you noticed any patterns in performance & fitness during the CX season?
The other thing I’ve noticed recently is with Training Levels the difference in SSB1 and 2 can either be massive or pretty minor. If all the levels have reset to 1 or otherwise gone down before starting the block, the level 1 one-hour VO2 and SS weekday workouts in week one will be a lot easier than level 3 one-hours at week 5 and level 4 one-and-a-half-hour workouts by the time you hit SSB2.
I’ll skip a workout and ride endurance if I’m feeling run down. It’s hard for my ego but it helps in the long run.
I don’t care if I’m doing polarized, threshold, pyramidal; anytime I add a lot of endurance intervals,icu classifies it as base. In the end ive still been improving fwiw.
I do have power on my CX bike…but to be fair power is so wild in a CX race I’m not sure how much there is to be gleaned from it. And also frankly…my fitness/form kind of tanked leading into CX season this past year…so during race season I was pretty steady throughout the year. Top 10 every race, got the hole shot every race from week 2 on, but not really contesting wins. But super close…I need about 10 seconds a lap to be on the podium most weeks.
I’ve definitely noticed the same thing…blocks start off easy and then progressively get harder. But…I think my mis-responding to the AI thingy…difficulty has ramped up ludicrously quickly in the past. I’m fine the first few weeks…the last 2 are brutal, and I get through them…but probably with such an excess load that if I dont break down…I’m not really adapting to the stress.
I’ve got my FTP down to 270 from 293, and low low levels. It’s not where I really wanted to be at this point this year…but if I’m being honest this is probably about what my fitness was like during race season. But even still…if I break this cycle of getting faster, stagnating, breaking down in August every year, I still have plenty of time to be light years ahead of where I’ve been in years past. I’m typically …not blazing cat 1 fast, but plenty fast in July to ride away from the field in my CX races if they happened then. Comfortably pulling for 20 minutes plus at 300 watts over and over on my club ride on the weekends. If I can just get/surpass that fitness in October I’ll be golden lol
I was just thinking that CX power data would be good to see how you are handling above-threshold efforts, and just to see fitness trends outside of the structured workouts. The other thing would be for TSS purposes, a lot of plans get derailed by introducing additional unmeasured fatigue (in a low-hanging food kind of way, it seems like you’ve got covered).
I think that adjusting the AI responses and searching for workout alternates on days when you aren’t feeling great going into a workout will help, but also maybe consider doing something like back-to-back recovery weeks or a little time off in June/July before going back into bigger blocks of training.
Not knowing where you are based could it also be something allergen related? Ragweed usually comes in late summer around me and unfortunately, allergies can get worse with age. Would think being fast in July rules out the effects of heat, but that could also accumulate and be a contributing factor.
Nah…I’m not allergic to anything other than maybe a sneeze here or there. I tend to fair much better in the heat than others…I love 90+ degree days. I’m in Chicago…need to enjoy the nice 3 months a year we get lol.
I HAD been planning on a 2 week mid season break (I still may do that). But I think I’ve sort of identified 2 big, glaring things that have probably been derailing me.
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Probably reaching way to high/deep in workouts on a daily basis. I’ve already dialed that back…will see how that affects me. Going to be much more conservative in the AI responses…and shoot for a more manageable levels/ftp increase this season.
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Absolutely…comically big days/weeks, looking over my riding history, have probably had an effect. Just as an example…I sat on the front and pulled my club in mostly sweet spot, 40 miles to watch a crit. I then upgraded in the reg tent to hop in a race rather than spectate…then road 40 miles back. That…MAY have been too much that day
That week went from an average of like 500 TSS over the summer to 900 or something that week.
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