It is still important to note that the majority of the American driving curriculum is from the mindset of following these safety rules because you (the driver) might get hurt. In cases like DUIs or texting these actions are worse because someone else might get hurt. 25mph is a safe speed to drive in spaces like a neighborhood where you expect people to be walking in the street, and speed limits have a 10 mph buffer before any real consequences like a speeding ticket.
Removing the cycling context, the plan to reduce the speed limit by 5mph and replace an uncontrolled intersection with a roundabout has been protested in my county. This plan was drafted because there were 3 fatal vehicle collisions at the intersection.
Yes agreed on all points. Improved education certainly would not hurt, but it’s just a single piece of the puzzle.
Really I think the laws, for the most part in the US, are spot on. The only thing truly lacking is enforcement. Heck…police are some of the worst offenders themselves when it comes to traffic violations, and I’m not talking about emergency situations.
Human beings in general (and car drivers in particular) are really bad signal acquisition and processing systems. Unlike some other species that have very specialized skills, such as the ability to see movements anywhere in their field of vision, we are generalists who have an awful signal-to-noise ratio, sensors and processors overloaded with useless signals (“What brand of car was that? Did you see how she’s dressed? Isn’t that house pretty? Wow, that ad is really offensive! What were you saying, dear? Wait, that’s my boss calling!”). We cyclists are signals trying to get through this noise. Two simple rules: be visible, stay visible. Very visible. Blinking lights, blindingly yellow clothes, and no hide-and-seek from behind parked cars. Middle of the lane if you need to.
The only way not to annoy a driver is by being invisible. And that’s not a safe idea.
Even IF everyone follows the law, even IF cycling infrastructure is dramatically improved, I think fundamentally the idea of the automobile is flawed, as human being are not equipped to drive them in a consistently safe manner under the best of circumstances. This is why I am so on board with AI drivers (or just eliminating the automobile as something used in daily life).
My point on the “tsk tsking” is that taking out your phone to take a picture (as opposed to describing later in words in a post) shows a level of annoyance (anger?) to do something that is REALLY dangerous. The OP in follow-up posts might have tried to clarify his intent, but I fall back on “taking your phone out to take a picture of a cyclist while driving is really dangerous” to support my reading of the initial post showing a high level of annoyance at the cyclist in question.
Going through insurance seems more plausible, at least for the speeding aspect. Similar to the plug in accelerometers that some have already. It’d need to know the local speed limit somehow, though. And collectively they have an incentive to make driving safer.
I agree, but also have been on the receiving end of asshat drivers who will buzz me for no legitimate reason whether I’m in the shoulder or not so at this point I try not to focus on whether I’m aggravating drivers or not; the ones that are aggravated will ALWAYS be aggravated by the presence of cyclists. End of story.
I should also say that whether riding alone or in a group, I do try to stay cognizant of drivers behind and especially in a one-lane situation check ahead for them (e.g. cresting a hill) and wave them through if possible. But if it’s a high traffic area, I will ABSOLUTELY take the lane to prevent drivers “Ope”-ing and attempting to squeeze by me.
There is also the weird reverse of this situation I encounter all the time near my home where I’ll get drivers (usually minivans) who attempt to “wave” me through a red light crossing when they have a green in both directions, to which I vehemently shake my head NO and motion them to go. It’s weird, annoying and I wish they’d stop doing that since it’s not helpful and could get me killed
I think the name of the game and overarching sentiment on this topic needs to be: IT DEPENDS on the situation, safety and comfort of the cyclist and the driver, and (ideally) EVERYONE trying to be courteous and respectful of each other’s space. It just doesn’t usually happen in real life (unfortunately).
Oh man…you just hit on one of my big pet peeves. Coming up to an intersection (lights or signs) and cars which clearly have the right of way start waving me through.
While I appreciate the gesture, and I know they are trying to be nice, please…for the love of all that is good and decent, just do what you are supposed to, and expected to, do. It is safer for all of us that way.
Related story - couple of years ago, I was on the local gravel trail and got to an intersection with one of the larger roads. Had been going pretty decent, so was taking a moment to recover. A car stops and starts waving me across. I just nodded and waved them on…back and forth for at least 10 or 15 seconds. PLEASE JUST GO!!!
YES THIS!!! I grew up in the Midwest, and spend a rumspringe 5 years in Philly while getting my masters there. Having moved back to MN in 2016, I had a REALLY hard time readjusting to “MN Nice” and others criticized me for being “too brusque” so I had to dial back the East Coast considerably
To this day, if I’m in a car or a bike I flat out REFUSE to play the “you go, no you go!” game, it is one of my worst pet peeves as well
I’ve found that drivers are far more likely to give up their right away to a bike than to take it when it’s not theirs.
Thinking about it, though, I kind of get it. Getting the bike out of the way is the only way for a driver to ensure that there won’t be some sort of bike/driver collision. If the driver proceeds and then the cyclist does something wrong, however unlikely, the consequences can be extreme for everyone. Pet peeve aside, it’s certainly better than drivers who aggressively make it unsafe for cyclists.
I for one am constantly on the lookout and concerned about potential bicycle collisions when I’m driving, regardless of who may be at fault. I can’t be the only one.
This happens to me several times a week. Idaho stops were legalized here a few years ago. Sometimes it results in stopping, waiting, and then we both try to go at the same time and then stop again.
If I need to wait for a break in traffic to cross a road I do my best to look like I’m aggressively not paying attention in the hopes that people won’t stop (while car counting so I have some idea when to check again). Doesn’t always work though. Also, for some reason it seems like it’s always the last car in a line that stops.
I had the opposite experience moving back to Australia from rural Canada, where road cyclists were a less common sight than the average moose and generally treated with a mixture of curiosity and amused bafflement. I was actually more likely to be seen and approached cautiously because of the novelty factor, plus less traffic density. Where I am now road cyclists are pretty common, so less confusion at intersections and such, but due to a combination of familiarity and good old-fashioned urban assertiveness I think there can be more risky/close moves made by both parties.
Nonsense. Cyclist is in the right. Also if there was the od parked car the cyclist would have to move in an out + riding on a crap surface. Safer to stay in a predictable and visable position.
All road users need to be more considerate. For example in this situation; how much time is the driver losing by waiting patiently and passing safely? Probably 5 seconds or so… worth being aggrevated/annoyed about?
I think that fundamentally it’s all about “Othering”. I get the same problem when I am out running or cycling whether i’m on a road with cars or a forest trail with dog walkers. Non-runners are the same as non-cyclists - they see someone out doing something weird that they don’t do and they think a combination of “Urrgh” and “freak” and “I hate you for some reason that i can’t articulate, maybe it’s because you clearly weigh 50kg less than me” and they do something on the scale between scowling at you, shouting at you to get off the road/path or buzzing you at 60 mph.
To a lesser extent it’s like surfing 20 years ago: there was a mutual antipathy (rightly so) between shortboarders, longboarders and boogie boarders. It’s just people don’t like other people. And lockdown made them worse.
I have noticed that when I wear jerseys and kit that involve displays of the American flag or even the color scheme (I have an Assos jersey that is red, white and blue) all of a sudden trucks in the rural areas give me a wider berth…)
