I can’t wrap my head around this one.
To argue that 1000s drivers should get off a highway designed for high traffic and high speeds to get on roads that are designed for neither of those things is not in good faith. Especially when the alternative is the cyclist using a bike path and a road where they will be riding under the speed limit.
Emphasis added.
@dmalanda, this isn’t about what’s legal. It’s about common sense.
Even if you don’t agree with @voldemort’s point, can you at least identify what his point is? I would honestly really like to hear it.
That’s empirically false. Why say things like this?
Are you really saying that ZERO drivers in SF don’t check the bike lane when turning right? ZERO drivers in SF stare at their phones while driving?
Come on.
@QuittingBikes I concede your point. Here is my personal observation and interpretation: I live in San Francisco on a driverless car route. I exclusively walk and ride bikes and use public transportation in San Francisco. My observation, on my street, is that a driverless car is MUCH more reliably going to stop at 4 way stop intersection that I walk or ride multiple times a day than a car being driven by a person. My interpretation was that in predictable situations driverless cars are more predictable then cars with people driving them.
Interesting. I was in San Francisco a few months ago…it seems the driverless cars are part of a pilot test program or something… is that right? How is it looking?
Also…i think the way your initial post was worded might have introduced some confusion…I was under the impression you were saying that human drivers in SF were never distracted, but the driverless cars were the danger.
I should not post before coffee!
Lol no worries. But yea I’m with you…thinking humans are going to drive responsibly is a hopeless battle. AI is the answer here…just humans away from the steering wheel. You can tell a computer to be responsible and it listens. You can tell a human the same thing, and they only do so until the cop is gome (if the cop even cares…)
I agree @iamholland, personal safety is obviously most important in that case.
I just don’t agree that since the car can easily kill the cyclist, we should consider that the car somehow « deserves » to be on the road while the cyclist is reckless for being on that same road.
Similarly, I think a lot about how the percentage of car drivers whose pay relies on their efficiency has skyrocketed in recent years due to rideshare and delivery stuff.
I’ve been riding in Chicago for over 20 years.
This is a good question…tough to answer honestly. Mostly because as I’ve gotten older…frankly I value my life more, so I work harder to stay out of harms way and bad situations/roads.
That said…I think my experience is similar. More cycling infrastructure which is nice, countered by worse driving, that is possibly more angry, but definitely more distracted than 20 years ago.
My commuting is spread out.
20+ years here in the greater Phoenix metro area. Maybe 500-600 hours/year on the bike. Riding is statistically getting more risky just by virtue of the new sprawl, filling in old residential areas with high density apartments etc… but, the obvious lack of new roads to reasonably handle the increased traffic is creating a lot of tension.
I can say without a doubt the single largest reason accidents happen from a driving standpoint is because people are in a rush. It is what it is and unless people are fined stiffer and more often the behavior gets reinforced. Knowing this, combined with knowing a large portion of the population is driving under the influence of something (pills, alcohol…), or sleep deprived, or ignorant, or using a phone, or tuning a radio, or arguing with their SO, etc…I adapt and change how I ride, where I ride and when I ride.
We cyclist are not exempt from blame either. I see cyclist everyday be impatient and cause issues everywhere. Some probably think they are doing what’s safest. Some maybe are in a rush to get to work after a group ride. Some don’t have a clue. Whatever it is, we cyclist could be way better ambassadors to our sport.
I’m guilty of both bad driving and cycling so not trying to rile anyone up here. We all just need to pay more attention to what we are doing. Especially driving, but cycling as well.
Around that much time bike commuting in Portland, OR. Not sure if I’d say it’s more dangerous but it doesn’t feel any less dangerous despite quite a bit more infrastructure. Some of which is useful, some of which isn’t, and a few that I actively avoid. Kinda hard to say because I’ll become desensitized / adapt to new dangers pretty quickly (ie, starting quite slowly at green lights to allow for someone to run it). Anecdotally I’d rank it as a bit safer than mid 2000s Boston, which is the only other extended comparison point I have.
I’ve bike around a bit around Seattle occasionally. It felt like Portland but steeper; which did make side street cars seem more dangerous (or at least more annoying). Tacoma was worse, though I should probably blame that on google.
See…I never do that. IMO weaving back and forth like that is a recipe for disaster. Every time you get out of the main riding line, you have to merge back in, and hope people make room for you. You’ve ceded space, and then need to rely on motorists to give it back to you to continue riding.
Now…I’m talking generally here, not really in regards to the OPs picture.
Well actually…I’m taking more specifically in an urban setting, with parked cars directly to the right, passing cars directly to the left. I pick a line just outside the door zone of the parked car, and stay in that area regardless of gaps in the parked cars or intersections. I see people swerve way over into the parked car space, or swing right in intersections, and then swing back into traffic. Horrible idea IMO.
I try and move out of the way when I feel it is safe for me to do that. I wave cars around me when that is safe. I wave at cars when they pass when they’ve been patiently waiting to pass (lots of experience riding twisty canyon roads in both Bay Area and Greater LA).
But I take offense to the OP’s basic supposition (or at least how it came across to me): that on that specific stretch of road he knows where that specific cyclist should ride so that he as a privileged driver he isn’t inconvenienced. From the limited I can see in that picture, the road looks very chewed up (probably in the process of getting repaved). And probably has parts with piles of ground up asphalt. I don’t know where the safest spot to ride is, and I don’t know the skill level / comfort of that specific cyclist and neither does the OP. So as the cyclist is riding legally, I don’t fault him.
My experience with drivers in the Bay Area is that a waaaay to high level are privileged A-holes who break the law (speed, blow through stop signs, blow through red lights, don’t stop for pedestrians, etc.). I walk my dogs at a stupidly early hour (~5:15am) and I see cars blow through red lights on Great Highway / blow through stop signs without slowing almost every day. So a privileged driver complaining about how cyclist bring on driver anger is laughable for how I see drivers act daily.
Edited to correct my lousy typing
Exactly my experience as well.
Long time motorcyclist and bike rider. 25 years (ouch) ago I used to commute from SF near Daly City to Redwood City. I stayed off the roads as much as I could. You had to be defensive to stay alive back then, now it’s prob worse. My closest encounter with death was when a driver turned right, with me on his right side. Looking into the car as he passed me before turning I saw a 40oz bottle of beer. I shouted at him he should not drink and drive he might spill his beer.
I now live in the Texas countryside. I find that keeping 1/3 of the lane makes them have to go into the opposite traffic lane, keeps me a bit safer. As long as that big black diesel pick up doesn’t mow me down I feel safe. That along with a very bright tail light.
