The poster is also a cyclist and in this case the one driving and taking the photo?!
There’s always the exception 
He’s been getting an earful for 200 posts
Interesting conversation…
I live and ride in San Francisco. The ONLY cars that do what you describe don’t have drivers!
Changing lanes a bit (get it?):
I think there are two groups of non-cyclists that get annoyed at cyclists. The first are ignorant, mostly hateful people who would hate us no matter what. In my experience riding in MN, they fit a stereotype that need not be discussed. They might not go out of the way to hit us, but if something causes road rage in them all bets are off.
There are also people who don’t hate cyclists, but get annoyed at things we do. In my experience, these people are annoyed because they perceive what we are doing as potentially dangerous, increasing their chances of hitting/injuring us.
Here is an example: I frequently see a commuter on a very busy two lane highway that has stretches with narrow shoulders during rush hour. It is extremely unsafe and I happen to know that it is completely unnecessary to take this road. There are paths and far safer roads nearby. I know people who would be annoyed at this rider because he is putting himself in a dangerous situation and increasing the drivers odds of hitting them.
Yes, it is legal for the rider to be on the road. Yes, people should pay attention. However, there are situations that are unavoidable. Just the other week the brakes went out on my car. I had no ability to stop my car using my brake pedal. I was going 10 mph, and was able to safely pull to the side of the road, but suppose it happened on that road during rush hour? If I tried to pull to the shoulder and slow down, my only option would have been to run the cyclist over or ram into a car (or pull the e-brake had I thought of it in the moment) What if a deer jumps in front of my car? What if someone slams on the brakes in front of me and I need to evade?
Further, I asked my wife about this rider, her response was that she gets anxious having to drive near this person because she is afraid they will crash in front of here and she will have no escape route (oncoming traffic is literally nonstop for several miles at this time)
If I am being honest, I believe this particular rider is kind of a d**k. It is no different than being inconsiderate in other ways. Take the nice/smooth bike path next to the road that was built so people did not need to ride this extremely dangerous stretch. When that ends take the low traffic road a block over that runs parallel.
4 Likes
That’s one way to look at it 
But why should the cyclist chose another road nearby, instead of the driver arranging to ride outside of rush hour (or riding a bike instead)?
Deep down we all believe riding our car to work is more « important/valid » than riding our bike for fun.
Trouble is: it isn’t! Everyone has their claim to the roads, as long as they are allowed to ride there.
It’s not because we feel miserable driving our cars to work that we deserve special treatment while doing it 
8 Likes
I do whatever I need to do to keep myself safe.
This often means treating people driving cars well to reduce the likelihood of being endangered by their self-entitled impatience.
A key part of this is always communicating early, clearly and repeatedly.
“Why should I thank a driver for doing what he ought to?” To encourage them to do the same again, to me or to others.
7 Likes
I can’t wrap my head around this one.
To argue that 1000s drivers should get off a highway designed for high traffic and high speeds to get on roads that are designed for neither of those things is not in good faith. Especially when the alternative is the cyclist using a bike path and a road where they will be riding under the speed limit.
1 Like
Emphasis added.
@dmalanda, this isn’t about what’s legal. It’s about common sense.
Even if you don’t agree with @voldemort’s point, can you at least identify what his point is? I would honestly really like to hear it.
2 Likes
That’s empirically false. Why say things like this?
Are you really saying that ZERO drivers in SF don’t check the bike lane when turning right? ZERO drivers in SF stare at their phones while driving?
Come on.
1 Like
@QuittingBikes I concede your point. Here is my personal observation and interpretation: I live in San Francisco on a driverless car route. I exclusively walk and ride bikes and use public transportation in San Francisco. My observation, on my street, is that a driverless car is MUCH more reliably going to stop at 4 way stop intersection that I walk or ride multiple times a day than a car being driven by a person. My interpretation was that in predictable situations driverless cars are more predictable then cars with people driving them.
1 Like
Interesting. I was in San Francisco a few months ago…it seems the driverless cars are part of a pilot test program or something… is that right? How is it looking?
Also…i think the way your initial post was worded might have introduced some confusion…I was under the impression you were saying that human drivers in SF were never distracted, but the driverless cars were the danger.
I should not post before coffee!
Lol no worries. But yea I’m with you…thinking humans are going to drive responsibly is a hopeless battle. AI is the answer here…just humans away from the steering wheel. You can tell a computer to be responsible and it listens. You can tell a human the same thing, and they only do so until the cop is gome (if the cop even cares…)
I agree @iamholland, personal safety is obviously most important in that case.
I just don’t agree that since the car can easily kill the cyclist, we should consider that the car somehow « deserves » to be on the road while the cyclist is reckless for being on that same road.
Similarly, I think a lot about how the percentage of car drivers whose pay relies on their efficiency has skyrocketed in recent years due to rideshare and delivery stuff.
I’ve been riding in Chicago for over 20 years.
This is a good question…tough to answer honestly. Mostly because as I’ve gotten older…frankly I value my life more, so I work harder to stay out of harms way and bad situations/roads.
That said…I think my experience is similar. More cycling infrastructure which is nice, countered by worse driving, that is possibly more angry, but definitely more distracted than 20 years ago.
1 Like
My commuting is spread out.
- 4 years in central Dublin (no route choice but fairly small congested roads, I’d often go by the least congested route)
- 4 years into central Edinburgh (1 year from Fife then 3 years from North Edinburgh) Its pretty congested in central Edinburgh I’d often take the direct’ish way in the morning 3miles and the mostly traffic free way (5miles) at night.
- 2 years in central Peterborough UK (Lol my commute ranged from 2-30miles)
- 5 years from rural Lincolnshire to Newark town (UK) they roads were mostly a bliss to cycle on
- 2.5 years into Central Cambridge UK (circa 90% on busway and 10% on roads with mobility filters (residential streets closed at one point to motor vehicles)
- 2.5 years in to Stevenage to Hertford (cycle paths out of Stevenage, they are reasonable quality and fast with a critical mass, if none of that was available I’d dice with traffic for a more comfortable and direct route that felt more safe personal security wise). In Hertford I initially went all on busy roads but I have recently discovered a mobility filtered route and I take that. I do still use the busy dual carriageway to get out of town at night as I’m moving and other roads are often stationary with no room to bypass traffic.
1 Like
20+ years here in the greater Phoenix metro area. Maybe 500-600 hours/year on the bike. Riding is statistically getting more risky just by virtue of the new sprawl, filling in old residential areas with high density apartments etc… but, the obvious lack of new roads to reasonably handle the increased traffic is creating a lot of tension.
I can say without a doubt the single largest reason accidents happen from a driving standpoint is because people are in a rush. It is what it is and unless people are fined stiffer and more often the behavior gets reinforced. Knowing this, combined with knowing a large portion of the population is driving under the influence of something (pills, alcohol…), or sleep deprived, or ignorant, or using a phone, or tuning a radio, or arguing with their SO, etc…I adapt and change how I ride, where I ride and when I ride.
We cyclist are not exempt from blame either. I see cyclist everyday be impatient and cause issues everywhere. Some probably think they are doing what’s safest. Some maybe are in a rush to get to work after a group ride. Some don’t have a clue. Whatever it is, we cyclist could be way better ambassadors to our sport.
I’m guilty of both bad driving and cycling so not trying to rile anyone up here. We all just need to pay more attention to what we are doing. Especially driving, but cycling as well.
6 Likes
Around that much time bike commuting in Portland, OR. Not sure if I’d say it’s more dangerous but it doesn’t feel any less dangerous despite quite a bit more infrastructure. Some of which is useful, some of which isn’t, and a few that I actively avoid. Kinda hard to say because I’ll become desensitized / adapt to new dangers pretty quickly (ie, starting quite slowly at green lights to allow for someone to run it). Anecdotally I’d rank it as a bit safer than mid 2000s Boston, which is the only other extended comparison point I have.
2 Likes