Yea I think that’s the fork in the road where we go down different paths…I think that shows evidence of both.
That said I mean obviously I’m aware a lot of drivers are wonderful people once out of the car. But just like guns…cars do horrible things to peoples minds.
Just to expand on this a touch…you said I think drivers loathe cyclists. I dont think that’s true at all. I think we, and every other human outside their vehicle, are just scenery when they’re driving…we’re not human anymore. Just as they would prefer not to hit a tree…they’d prefer not to hit a cyclist or a pedestrian. They’re angry at us for being in the road in the same sense they’d be angry at a tree branch in the road…
One thing I noticed spending a week in the countryside of Pereira, Colombia is that people gently honked often as a sign of “hey I’m passing now.”
I don’t mind it. It’s laying on the horn in traffic where you’re just rushing to the next jam because you want to watch tiktok.
Totally agree. I mentioned above I’m in the US…but yes I should make explicitly clear I dont think my view of drivers applies outside the US. I know from firsthand experience it does not.
I live in the US, ride outside about 8 hours a week, and honestly don’t see the things you see. Mostly respectful drivers in the Sacramento metro area. I know a local guy that insists on “taking a lane” on 55mph county highways, and he thinks all drivers are rude and out to get him. He moved to Napa so thankfully I don’t have to ride with him anymore on Wed night.
I’ve seen my share of bike-car hits and close calls. The first sentence uttered by the driver in all of those was “I didn’t see you” or a variant thereof - never “you deserved it”.
Yes, there are angry, risk-taking, emotional idiots out there. Some are driving, some are riding, some are walking. And many cause accidents.
But being seen is way at the top of the risk-reduction strategy list. Not “I’ll try not to make them angry“.
I refer you back to my farm equipment comparison. Imagine a pack of 100 farm tractors going up the road. They do that in France pretty often. It’s called a demonstration, and it makes national news. And no, nobody finds it amusing.
People don’t see because people arent looking.
If they got off their phones, if they drove the speed limit, if they checked their right mirror in the US before making a right turn, if they stopped at stop lights and stop signs and looked before proceeding, if they checked their blind spots before changing lanes, of course they would see people.
But the majority of people dont do any of these things, because they cant be bothered with the effort it takes to care about the safety of others, so of COURSE they dont ‘see’ cyclists, or anything else in their path.
Anyone ever talk to someone convicted of vehicular manslaughter (or some variant of injuring/killing a cyclist with their car)? Are they sincerely remorseful? Or would they do it again? Not accepting their guilt? I genuinely don’t know, but think that perspective would be very useful to this discussion.
The “sociopath” label is a bold one that certainly has spurred some discussion. All roadusers experience varying levels of decision fatigue about how much to respect other people they encounter on the road, and frankly, how much to respect the law. But no amount of laws substantively change the level of respect toward the various classes of people certain laws protect. I’m fully aware I could be beaten up for the color of my skin no matter what laws protect me. Suffice to say, I take self-preservation measures all the time because there isn’t a system in the western world that effectively regulates respect for people. Respect for law, yes. But not respect for people.
A driver too busy on their phone, or just found out their partner has been cheating, etc and hits a cyclist (willfully or by accident) lacked respect not only for the law (illegal) but also lacked respect for people in that moment by being an irresponsible roaduser.
If “the law” doesn’t tie all roadusers together in mutual respect, then all that remains is “morality” or “ethics” if you like. So then the question could be “Who has the highest moral authority on the road?” The most vulnerable roaduser? (Pedestrians? Stray dogs?) I see that this is a dangerous question. But remember just because you think you might have higher moral authority on the road doesn’t mean anyone else out there agrees with you. And that’s the balance we all have to manage in the US, Netherlands, Vietnam, or Africa (where I currently live). And sometimes that is fatiguing. That’s generally the prevailing condition for collisions.
True - 99% of drivers have broken the law at some point. Breaking laws whilst driving just isn’t seen the same by society as other criminality. I think this goes some way to explaining the behaviour on the roads, most people expect to get away with driving 5mph over the speed limit, running a ‘questionable’ red light from time to time or using their phone at the wheel.
Of which cyclists are those people 
There is a bizarre “us and them” mentality when “we” ARE “them”. 
The overwhelming majority of cyclists get through their rides with no incidents that end in causing them physical harm. That’s not quite the same thing. I’d suggest that quite possibly a majority of cyclists experience incidents that have the potential for physical harm, but don’t due to luck or avoiding action on the part of the cyclists, or cause them mental stress. Often, though, they don’t even consciously register them, having been desensitised to them by their quotidian nature.
It’s definitely not an “us and them”, it’s “us on a bike” vs “us in a car” and the resulting differential in the ability and likelihood of causing physical harm and death through your actions on the road.
Respectfully, the whole thread is us (cyclists) vs. them (car drivers). If it was us on a bike vs us in a car then there wouldn’t be a thread
The poster is also a cyclist and in this case the one driving and taking the photo?!
There’s always the exception
He’s been getting an earful for 200 posts
Interesting conversation…
I live and ride in San Francisco. The ONLY cars that do what you describe don’t have drivers!
Changing lanes a bit (get it?):
I think there are two groups of non-cyclists that get annoyed at cyclists. The first are ignorant, mostly hateful people who would hate us no matter what. In my experience riding in MN, they fit a stereotype that need not be discussed. They might not go out of the way to hit us, but if something causes road rage in them all bets are off.
There are also people who don’t hate cyclists, but get annoyed at things we do. In my experience, these people are annoyed because they perceive what we are doing as potentially dangerous, increasing their chances of hitting/injuring us.
Here is an example: I frequently see a commuter on a very busy two lane highway that has stretches with narrow shoulders during rush hour. It is extremely unsafe and I happen to know that it is completely unnecessary to take this road. There are paths and far safer roads nearby. I know people who would be annoyed at this rider because he is putting himself in a dangerous situation and increasing the drivers odds of hitting them.
Yes, it is legal for the rider to be on the road. Yes, people should pay attention. However, there are situations that are unavoidable. Just the other week the brakes went out on my car. I had no ability to stop my car using my brake pedal. I was going 10 mph, and was able to safely pull to the side of the road, but suppose it happened on that road during rush hour? If I tried to pull to the shoulder and slow down, my only option would have been to run the cyclist over or ram into a car (or pull the e-brake had I thought of it in the moment) What if a deer jumps in front of my car? What if someone slams on the brakes in front of me and I need to evade?
Further, I asked my wife about this rider, her response was that she gets anxious having to drive near this person because she is afraid they will crash in front of here and she will have no escape route (oncoming traffic is literally nonstop for several miles at this time)
If I am being honest, I believe this particular rider is kind of a d**k. It is no different than being inconsiderate in other ways. Take the nice/smooth bike path next to the road that was built so people did not need to ride this extremely dangerous stretch. When that ends take the low traffic road a block over that runs parallel.
That’s one way to look at it 
But why should the cyclist chose another road nearby, instead of the driver arranging to ride outside of rush hour (or riding a bike instead)?
Deep down we all believe riding our car to work is more « important/valid » than riding our bike for fun.
Trouble is: it isn’t! Everyone has their claim to the roads, as long as they are allowed to ride there.
It’s not because we feel miserable driving our cars to work that we deserve special treatment while doing it 
I do whatever I need to do to keep myself safe.
This often means treating people driving cars well to reduce the likelihood of being endangered by their self-entitled impatience.
A key part of this is always communicating early, clearly and repeatedly.
“Why should I thank a driver for doing what he ought to?” To encourage them to do the same again, to me or to others.