Current state of dedicated trainers? [Smart Bikes]

Equipment
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Wildfire got the house. Lost my Wahoo Kickr Core and my 2012 Roubaix Apex Compact that was my road bike and what I usually mounted on the trainer. Just replaced the bike with a 2020 Roubaix Comp Ultegra Di2 (w/disc brakes). Not sure how comfortable I am with the idea of just getting another Kickr Core and putting the shiny new bike on it, so I was looking at dedicated trainers (Tacx Neo Bike, Wahoo Kickr Bike) instead. And it might make it easier for my wife to use the same trainer setup come winter. Butā€¦

All the reviews Iā€™ve read suggest that all of these are still experiencing early failures, manufacturing issues, etc. Is that clearing up or do I need to wait for next yearā€™s releases?

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Far from conclusive, but it seems that the main brands are still seeing some teething issues with the smart bikes. My frame of reference comes from following the related blog posts from DC Rainmaker. I subscribe to each one and see a comment about each one nearly every week or two. My takeaway is that they are all workable to a point (some better than others) and none is a clear winner at this time.

Worth your time to review the comments sections to judge for yourself.

Maybe @dcrainmaker can give a better short summary?

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Iā€™m so sorry to hear about your house. We lost ours 3 years ago and itā€™s still hard in different ways and at unexpected times.

I donā€™t have any advice on the trainer situation. When we lost our house I was more into guitar and I had some success reaching out to guitar companies for discounts on replacement gear. You might try the same. I felt weird doing it, but it helped, especially when youā€™ll need insurance money (hoping youā€™re covered) to go as far as possible getting the rest of your life together.

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So sorry to hear about your house, but glad youā€™ve been able to replace some of whatā€™s been lost.

I also got a new bike and didnā€™t want to put it on a trainer. I went the Stages route. Itā€™s different than a bike on trainer setup. If you like perfect, smooth graphs in TrainerRoad, this isnā€™t the bike for you, but if you want something built like a tank, totally silent, and able to make your legs beg for mercy this IS a great product.

Iā€™ll be bluntly honest, if you had ANY smoothing turned on with your KickR, youā€™ll probably be driven nuts by the Stages, but if you had the Wahoo set so you could see how much variety there was in a typical pedal stroke, Stages is great. It really shows all the little inaccuracies we input into the pedalsā€¦unfortunately this also means you can be in a situation where the numbers bounce around more than youā€™re used to. To me, I see this, but I donā€™t feel it, so all is good.

I also really like Stages support. Call them and youā€™ll talk to a live person in a matter of seconds.

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What I would consider is how long is the warranty on these things and is there an avenue to have it repaired or refurbished 4, 6, or 8 years from now. I know that if I spent that kind of money on a stationary bike Iā€™d expect it to last a decade and Iā€™d expect to be able to buy parts if I wore anything out.

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Sorry about the house , must have been tough?

Would you not be better buying a Smart trainer like the Tacx Neo 2 and buying a cheap secondhand bike 2 year old and fitting that, It would give you second bike that you might even use when the weather not so good. Or you just leave it set up all the time and hence easy to just hop on and do a quick one hour of sweet spot (Abbey.)

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While not the OP, hereā€™s what was involved in my decision making process toward getting a smart bike:

  • Gearing options with a click - I have two bikes. 12 speed road bike. 9 speed tri bike. Where I live, itā€™s flat as a pancake. The only way I can practice climbing is on the trainer. With a smart bike, I can click a button and climb with the correct gearing to match what I will actually use outside.

  • Fit - I can clip on aero bars, twist a few knobs and I match my tri bike fit in about a minute. Take another minute and Iā€™m back to road bike position. Have a day where my back is really bothering me, bring the bars up and back a bit. (Iā€™ll have days where my back wonā€™t let me ride my actual bike, but I can always make the smart bike work.

  • Maintenance - Wipe bike down when done is the limit of the maintenance. No making sure the front tire still has air. No drivetrain lube and adjustments. Nothing. (Granted, most people that have a dedicated trainer bike do no maintenance but Iā€™m too anal for that!)

  • Price - when I really did the math, after the cost of a top end trainer and finding a used bike that would at least get close to my size, I was close to the cost of a smart bike. Now, if you live somewhere that used bikes are still plentiful, youā€™re golden, but down here, in South Florida bike shops look like locusts went through them and the used market is crazy inflated. I think there will be amazing deals on used bikes in 5 to 9 months, but if you want a solution NOW the pricing just wasnā€™t too far off for me.

So, it all depends on the user as to what matters and what doesnā€™t. Iā€™ve gone through 4 trainer set ups in a year. The only thing I couldnā€™t make work was a wheel on that needed to be set up and torn down with each use. I live somewhere with year round outside riding, I couldnā€™t make myself drag out all the crap when I could just go outside. Now that I have a dedicated bike (that can be made to match either of my irl bikes with a click), in a dedicated place, with all the ā€œstuffā€ needed to use it, Iā€™m much more consistent with training.

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For me, having a dedicated trainer setup is a massive plus - whether thatā€™s achieved from having a smart bike or a permanently set up smart trainer plus dedicated trainer bike (ā€œtrainer muleā€) that always remains attached to it.

That being the case, a question then is whether the trainer setup needs to be shared between people or whether in reality itā€™s a solo rig that will only, or almost only, be used by one person. Clearly, a smart bike offers faster switching between positions than a trainer mule, so if multi-user thatā€™s a massive attraction.

For me, multi-user was a possible nice-have, not a must-have.

IMO a smart trainer + trainer mule combo offers a more ā€œrobustā€ and ā€œmaintainableā€ setup. What I mean with those quoted terms is that system failures can usually be resolved more easily and more quickly with less recourse to the manufacturer, without a single point of failure taking the whole thing out. Obviously, issues with the trainer mule bike can be readily fixed by pretty much anyone, while catastrophic failures with the trainer can be resolved if necessary by replacement with another trainer of the same or different brand, offering various options to get your setup going again, quickly.

Conversely, that is the weakness of the smart bikes: a great, no-maintenance option when working as designed, but being a monolithic system borderline catastrophe when they fail and you face the logistical issues and potentially lengthy wait while the issues are resolved, if you are unlucky.

My heart said smart bike, but my (risk manager) head said donā€™t rely upon remaining lucky, so for me a trainer + dedicated mule won out. I built the dedicated mule from a v cheap frame, inexpensive bits and a 105 mechanical groupset. This has worked well, and I perform a clean/wax lube on the derivetrain about once per month to keep it running sweetly. This route seemed the best option for me at the time, and with hindsight that remains the case.

Others with different requirements - particularly the frequent multi-user question - will reach different conclusions - thatā€™s what makes a market! Figure out what the most important issues are for you and the answer of which route to go down should become much clearer.

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@AldridgePrior makes a REALLY good pointā€¦if you can buy a frame and BUILD a trainer bike, AND youā€™re the only person that needs to use it, that would be an awesome system.

For me, itā€™s all about having a bike that is always ready to go. No excuses for those days when I look at the calendar and thinā€¦WTF is Coach Chad thinking!!!

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I have a Wahoo KICKR bike and have been very happy with it. The three main reasons I switched to a smart bike were cleanliness, adjustability, and to remove mechanical failure from the equation. I am NOT a bike mechanic by any stretch of the imagination and having to deal with derailleurs and stuff and things not shifting quickly was something I was very happy to avoid.

Not having any oil or grease in my bedroom was another huge plus. Nothing gets on my carpet, Nothing gets dirty. Huge plus.

Although my wife still has yet to take a turn on the KICKR in the many months Iā€™ve owned it, she said just the other day that she wants to try. I knew this would happen eventually and once you figure out the right measurements its a quick adjustment to get it all set up for her. I think this will pay off in the future.

I havenā€™t really had any complaints about it. I am not super happy about the forced saddle tilt and sometimes get numbness from this, but I need to spend some more time seeing if I can fix this. One time (out of probably 100 workouts) I had an issue during a Zwift session where the gears stopped shifting. Of course this happened on a 16% gradient so not ideal timing lol but I got to the top of the KOM rebooted the bike, and it never happened again.

The ease of switching gears is REALLY nice and now that I have started using TR in ERG mode I think itā€™s a great solution. Happy with my purchase.

BTW, very sorry to hear about your loss. Hope you are doing okay.

EDIT: Typos

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Well i managed to fall off my bike getting off the trainer, damaging the seatstay and drop out area so iā€™ve decided to say no more putting nice roadbike on trainer.

I had a go on a wattbike, all good until i get out of the saddle in erg mode, then the power dropped 100watts each time. I thought id pressed a gear or something but no. Then the power comes back up. Awful.

How is the stages bike in this respect ? I read above its not great but ive seen reviews on youtube saying how good it is. I rarely use in resistance mode. I can take or leave zwift although maybe would enjoy more with a bike with proper shift levers rather than buttons.

Can get the stages for Ā£1699 which is cheaper than the rest. Wahoo is Ā£2300, i can get the tacx bike plus for the same through a garmin contact which i am leaning towards.

I hate not being able to cycle its a nightmare.

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Save $$$$ and just buy a cheap road bike to put on the trainer. How the hell did you damage the seatstay?

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Yep thats another option iā€™ve been considering. I wonder as the bike fell off maybe the seatstay hit the top of the trainer caused a slight bit of damage.

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I did this for a year or two before finally pulling the trigger on a smart bike. It was a pretty good setup and I liked not having to worry about doing any damage to my nice bikes (sweat issues or otherwise) by using them on the trainer. I also the fact that my outdoor bikes and my trainer setup were always both ready to roll at a moments notice.

I had been tempted by a smart bike for a while and had picked up some extra shifts at work so I decided to sell my setup and get a Wahoo bike. A few things off the top of my head that I like compared to the dedicated bike setup:

  • I can easily play with all kinds of fits. Shorter cranks, longer reach, lower stack, etc are all quick and easy changes. I can try things out on the Wahoo bike to see how it feels before spending money on new parts for my bike or a new frame/bike.
  • after buying some cheap aero bars I can swap between riding my road setup and my TT setup.
  • while itā€™s not a ā€˜must haveā€™ feature for me, I really like the climb feature. Iā€™ll do intervals at certain grades to simulate what my position will be like when riding climbs outside. ie we have a 6% climb that is 5 miles long here that I like to ride. So I can simulate that on the trainer easily
  • sturdy structure and easy to clean. Sometimes Iā€™d be a little nervous doing hard and fast sprints on the bike+trainer setup as Iā€™ve had the connections at the dropouts slip (could have been user error of not tightening enough or could eliminate it with a thru axel frame). Donā€™t have to worry about living or waxing the chain or the mess a chain creates.
  • my wife can use the bike as well (hasnā€™t happened, but one can dream, haha)

Both options (dedicated trainerbike vs smart bike) are much better than putting your nice bike on and off the trainer in my opinion. I was and would be happy with either. Like most things it just depends on how tight a budget is and if the extra benefits and features are worth it for what you are looking to get out of the bike

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Is the frame still rideable on a trainer? Or easily fixed? Carbon bikes can fixed relatively cheaply DIY or otherwise especially if you donā€™t need a cosmetically perfect, paint matched repair.

Before I bought any smart bike Iā€™d want to know what the spare parts and repair situation is like. I wouldnā€™t want to end up with a big heavy brick 5 years from now in the event it broke.

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I got a Tacx Neo Bike within a few months of release, primarily because my teenage sons were becoming serious and the previous less-than-optimal solution for my wife (6ā€™2") and me (5ā€™11 1/2") of swapping saddle set ups on a dedicated trainer bike wasnā€™t going to work for 6ā€™5 and, eventually, 6ā€™8". (And my 11 year old daughter has already expressed an interest, although sheā€™s got 1 more inch to grow before she reaches minimum. At the time, neither the Wahoo or the Stages was available.

Iā€™m on my 4th due to various failuresā€“every time, the Tacx/Garmin customer service was fantastic and had the replacement bike within 48 hours. Current one has been good for 18 months with essentially daily use.

Still have the OG shifter buttons, which arenā€™t ideal. Also still looking for a way to get a little movement that works.

So for an efficient multi-user scenario, especially with a big range in sizes of those users, smart bikes make the most sense. Although the QA issues have been frustrating, the customer support has been stellar, and in thinking about the total time weā€™ve spent on the bike itā€™s been pretty reasonable, especially with the most recent one.

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Hi guys thanks for the replies. My bike went straight off for repairs, was told 4-5 weeks, new section of seat stay needed and some resin fixing of the drop out area. Given that i had just started my first season crit racing, and trained really consistently since last summer, the thought of seeing my fitness dissapear was frustrating. Thought about buying an old bike off ebay but even the cheapest things seem to be several hundred, i find myself looking at the wattbike (interest free over a year) and the cheaper Stages bike (interest free over 2 years).

So iā€™m thankfully using my mates wattbike this week at his place and if it wasnā€™t for how Erg behaves when you get out of the saddle iā€™d say its a solid bike, power dropping down to 80 watts from 300 odd for 5 seconds is just daft really. I mean read their marketing - ā€˜The best smart trainer to use with TrainerRoadā€™, ā€˜Works seamlesslyā€™. Seriously, take that off your website.

Then theres the stages. Its now Ā£500 roughly cheaper than everything else. Question is, is erg mode good like it is on my 4 year old tacx neo trainer ? Seen reviews on youtube saying how good it is on trainer road. Then read other reviews saying how slow it is. Whats erg mod like on the other bikes as well ?

Not the best hearing about your issues with the tacx bike EMyers but glad garmin sorted. I do have a Garmin contact that can get me a big discount but even then the bike is still Ā£500 dearer than the stages.

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Erg mode on the Neo Bike is very solid. It undershoots target by 1-2%, but consistently, so I just increase the workout level to 101 or 102% to match. Latest firmware is a little slower to ramp up than before, but nothing significant. My sense is that main trade-off between the Stages and Tacx, besides price, is better hardware reliability from the former vs better software/firmware from the latter.

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Never had a problem with Wattbike and TrainerRoad.
Just saying

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So iā€™ve borrowed a different gen 2 atom, had a go last night and huge difference. Erg mode perfectly good enough and allowed me to get out saddle. Just quite noisy. Alot of whine at 90 cadence and above.

Original one i tried i suspect has an issue or isnā€™t gen 2 as the owner thinks it is.