Ha, right? I’d be 300 lbs if I ate whenever I was hungry
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I did, and I was!!!
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In my experience and as someone who has been counting macros on and off since 2016/2017 the method does work.
You ask if I’ve noticed a difference when consuming whole foods versus more processed foods and really it’s hard to differentiate because CICO is just one way of measuring something. Like you, when I eat minimally processed foods I tend to have lower body weight, or I’m able to lose some excess body weight - the question I belive is the result of that a product of what we’ve consumed or is it also part of being more diligent in counting calories and staying active? It just so happens when I’m in a “dieting” phase and trying to be i a deficit, I’m also cooking more of my own foods and focusing on more nutrient dense and filling foods versus, calorie dense foods. For myself, I found it more sustainable with this approach than it is when I just focus on tasty, processed foods that fit withing my macros.
I tend to believe that the bigger trends and being consistent in whatever your individual approach is to eating to achieve your goals matter more than any specific method of doing it. You can weigh your food, you can weigh your body, or you can just look at yourself in the mirror, monitor how your clothes fit, and get in tune with your appetite and eat by feel. Whatever works for you is what you should do.
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Yeah whoever said that never did interval workouts…
Well I do think it’s a good idea to try and get 30 different fruits/veggies/grains, etc. a week. more verity for your gut biome is a good thing.
Minimizing ultra processed is also good advice.
So lots of good advice, but are we going to give it a go and stick with it? 
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Well n=1, even the 25% error in some foods (can be up or down) over a week I still don’t believe is going to make or break a deficit.
Plus the studied and reported phenomenon that people usually tend to underreport calories eaten, forgetting the small bite here and there, rounding numbers…
One is super careful and report even the air he breathes? What a healthy approach to food.
Plus the incredible amount of error you have in counting calories out.
(We, as cyclist, are lucky with our power meter. And also there you have a lot of uncertainty.)
You end up with numbers that makes little sense.
The only measurement system with a fair grade of certainty is a scale, used morning after bathroom.
DEXA scan also.
All I can say is tracking calories in v calories out has worked for me, and I get expected results based on TDEE estimates and my fitness pal. Is it a healthy relationship with food - I don’t know, I generally track and move on. It doesn’t impact my choices on social occasions. I’ll take a potentially unhealthy relationship with food rather than the definitely unhealthy waistline that accompanied me when I was 120kg plus!
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Yea. Heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke, etc, is a heck of a lot bigger concern than having an “unhealthy relationship.” One is a hell of a lot more likely to kill you. A little perspective helps.
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and using extremes as examples is a fair way to discuss.
like anorexya is nothing, right?
What I’m saying is that there are a lot of steps before counting obsessivly calories.
And if you are not obsessed while counting calories, then you are literaly counting nothing.
If for anyone works tough, please go ahead. I do it time to time just to get a feeling of portion sizes.
“All models are wrong but some are useful”
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No one said that…
The point was that for a lot of people, the “unhealthy relationship” with food is more likely to be over eating than under eating. So if counting calories gets you to eat the correct amount but have a slightly unhealthy relationship with food then it’s a net benefit. Though I’d argue that counting calories isn’t inherently an unhealthy relationship with food as long as you aren’t (like you implied) using it to see the lowest number possible on the scale or in your food log.
This is obviously untrue. Your calorie intake over an average several days matters more than every single bite you eat, so if you miss a thing here or there or even miss a whole day it doesn’t mess with the averages too much.
Also, just like you said, from the times I’ve counted calories what helped me the most wasn’t even those times of counting, it was the education that gave me to then intuitively have an idea of my intake during times I’m not counting.
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i didn’t see it mentioned but as athletes getting the calorie count wrong (too little) just reduces NEAT and other extra energy usage by the body. I’m working iwth a dietician and its quite surprising how much food i still have to eat. And deficits only 3 days a week.
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When I pay attention, I can tell that I may sometimes move less and be less energetic during the day when in a deficit. It’s just one of the signs…this is probably why my last cut was so effective because not only was I diligent in not snacking - I also added a good amount of walking into the day to keep my activity to compensate for less NEAT.
I’d be curious to hear about the approach your dietician is helping you take and what your goals are if you wouldn’t mind sharing. A good place to share it would be on this thread if you are so inclined. Weight loss accountability buddy or thread discussion
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No one said that…
I know, my answer was direct to compare “unhealthy relationship” to Heart deases, diabetes (while calling for better perspective)…which was not what I was referring to.
This is obviously untrue. Your calorie intake over an average several days matters more than every single bite you eat, so if you miss a thing here or there or even miss a whole day it doesn’t mess with the averages too much.
You cannot do a average intake if you miss things and underreport others.
Point is that then you are better served with other systems.
Also Calories Counting put stress only on calories, no mention to their quality.
Also, just like you said, from the times I’ve counted calories what helped me the most wasn’t even those times of counting, it was the education that gave me to then intuitively have an idea of my intake during times I’m not counting.
And I confirm it and agree fully with you.
But, that is completely different from the general claim you can here almost everywhere that CICO is law and “it’s simple thermodynamcs baby”. Which I believe is a bad claim.
A good claim to me is the famous: Eat food, Not too much, Mostly plants
And work from there.
Will post over there soon!
I do actually believe that CICO is law. I also do recognise that measuring calories in and out is not perfect so I can see how “calorie counting” as a diet isn’t as simple as it is usually stated.
My most useful tool for weight control is the scale. I find it useful to weigh daily but it’s important to only act on trends not single data points.
The way I act on the information is only ever going to be by decreasing calories in and/or increasing calories out - “it’s simple thermodynamcs baby”
CICO isn’t the law, it’s just the peer reviewed proven science!
I don’t see calorie counting as “a diet” it’s a way for me to maintain my overall diet in line with my overall goals. Some days that is eating more rather than making choices to eat less.
In terms of NEAT - n=1 I find training far more impactful than diet tbh. Hard to get moving after a 4-5 hour spin, regardless of how well fuelled I did it. For me, that’s where my watch and step count comes in. And also for days where my NEAT is higher than normal.
I do weigh in every day, but I do so for the weekly averages/ trend. It has helped my knowledge of the impact of some foods have on my body in terms of retaining fluid. Beer and salty foods in particular. But the trend is my friend or enemy.
Anything diet related I prefer to talk about what worked for me. My experience is that people can get quite fundamentalist about “diets”, and ways to achieve a deficit. I’d be pretty fundamentalist about believing the proven science though!
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Point being that CICO is so difficult to actually follow in a way that make it proven science that most of the people are better served using other tools.
As I said already, I believe it can work and help and I also do it. But I do not believe that it is the right tool to be advertise as a solution to weight problems / control.
You talk about tracking calories comsumption through a watch. Their calories expenditure estimation is, well, an estimation. It can be veeery screwd.
Science is not: “I have data let me use theeeeem”, it’s also tell which data are realiable and good to be used.
You can pretend making good science with bad data, but in reality you will get bad science.
Still science tough
In lieu of counting calories, what method should we use instead?
Sauna, organ donation, clipping fingernails?
Edit: Damn I did the same thing I was complaining about earlier lol.
Ok. We need to differentiate between how weight loss occurs, and how we formulate a plan to make that happen.
Weight loss only occurs through calorie reduction/increased calorie expenditure…end of story.
The real questions revolve around how we get there…best practices. THERE people can have intelligent and well meaning disagreements.
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