Build phase now too easy?

That’s just beautiful.

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Just use Adaptive Training. At the start of the plan, if the workouts look too easy then pick a suggested alternate workout that is “Stretch” or “Breakthrough” and the plan will adjust from then on, based on your completion success and survey responses. At any point, you can pick an alternate workout based on your current feel or mood, AT is very flexible. I like it a lot.

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Just to make sure i got this part right: in order to do that, at this point, you need a Garmin and a power meter, right?

Yes. Having said that, there is a power discrepancy between power meter and trainer power. I did outdoor workouts a week ago, picked alternates harder than suggested, completed the workouts successfully, then I was hammered by the next AT threshold workout suggestion (University). Mixing outdoor and indoor workouts in the plan could be tricky.

Ok; a follow-up after adding a plan to my calendar with AT: the process is quite convoluted, but once i got the start date to the right week in the past, the workouts were added correctly. I had to delete the remaining ones i already had. And for next week (last hard week for the uild phase) it already swapped the standard workouts to others that look much more in line with what i’d expect.
So, at this point it looks ok for my needs!
And before many of you say ‘I told you!’, or that it was my fault for not using AT already: i do stand by my original criticism. I’m a longtime user, the standard plans got worse for my use and i had to fix things after asking here and in the chat and by using a beta feature nonetheless.
All in all, if they keep refining it and enable all outside workouts with it, i’ll stick around for longer.
And indeed thank you all for the useful information!

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This. Just my n=1 experience, but I sandbagged on my ftp a little, did my first threshold workout and marked it „hard“, got adaptations, the workouts became „very hard“.
The workouts feel just right by now and I m happy and have a calm mind that they’ll probably get easier when I mark a workout „all out“ that’s not supposed to be all out.
Maybe I m just lucky, but it works like a charm for me.

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Garmin, pretty sure. Power meter, not necessarily - I did quite a few workouts on my MTB which doesn’t have a power meter but I used an HRM and the system worked out effort from that.

The setting of the start of a plan in the past is a bit of a hack TBH. Like a lot of things, PB assumes a clean slate. Like I said above, I think the existing plans should have remained in place until AT was out of beta and the default setup.

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You can use outside workouts with a Wahoo unit. Only thing is that they will always be marked as a succes for now. So if you did fail, you’ll have to be real honest with yourself and perhaps tone down the next workout of that type.

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But isn’t that what AT is supposed to do for you? That’s what the big claim of AT was. If you’re nailing workouts, it should be getting harder. And for me and others, it just isn’t doing that. And you have people that were progressing great with TR plans, then AT is introduced and the progression stops. Having to manually adjust the plans is the opposite of what AT was claimed to be.

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I think he is pointing out how someone complains workouts are “too easy” and so he’s giving a solution to their problem. Sure AT is supposed to help modify upcoming workouts but like everything in life, you can’t please everyone. So the solution to those complaining AT “sucks”and “doesn’t work for me” is to pick harder workouts and then the workout levels and upcoming workouts will be harder. In the end they might end up burying themselves and hopefully go back to following what AT is providing them.

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That explains my virtual out doors rides last week. Although I am using a Garmin.
After riding a Saturday TT, a Sunday cafe ride (Z1). Smashing two virtual SS workouts (Monday& Tuesday) and then a Paceline on Wednesday night (Z3), I deliberately never hit my Thursday work out hard and was able to listen to sport during it. I was expecting at least a stagnation in the PLs but the system awarded me +0.6 for the threshold PL.

What you can also do, is add the plan builder plan, but set the start date to 12 (2 * base) weeks ago, so that the build phase starts today … AT will then work with the “plan” and you won’t have to edit anything

Nope - can mark workout as an outside workout and do it using RPE (no head unit at all or power meter) and then mark it as done if you wish and it will assume successful completion (you can mark it as failed)

Why didn’t you just swap a workout that looked easy for something harder that you can complete? Bumping your PL’s that way will make the plan harder right away. Maybe that just needs to be communicated better by TR?

Glad to hear that it’s working out for you :+1:

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Have you ever worked with a coach? They don’t just magically give you the perfect workouts from day 1. You may do a few tests, then some workouts to see where you are at. You tell your coach how they went then they’d adjust your next week/month etc. Or if you feeling really good 1 day, then you do a little extra. That’s what AT is…it’s your robot coach

If you don’t communicate with your coach they won’t know if the workouts they give you are too easy, too hard, too long.

Before AT you have 1 static plan, if it’s not working for you then sorry you’re SOL. Now you get a plan that changes to what you can actually do. If your AT spits out a too easy workout try an alternate. You may crush it or may not finish. That’s a data point AT will use for the next workout. And so on

A plan is not a static # of weeks of unchanging workouts. A plan is a progression of workouts that work for you that get you to a goal

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But that was my point. I was doing the post ride surveys after nailing workouts and AT still kept giving me easier adaptations. It’s like I would hit a workout, tell my coach that’s a great workout, I felt good, let’s keep it going, and they’d say, oh maybe you’ll get it next time and give me an easier workout the next time. I ended up ignoring AT the whole block because every “adaption” was around a full progression level drop than the workout I just nailed.

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You got me there. I assume you emailed support?

I did, and they were helpful. They said it might have been an issue with AT actually using my survey answers but regardless, I wasn’t getting a lot of use from it. I do plan to give it another try over the winter for my base/build so I’m hoping it’s gotten better. But for now it’s just not been helping me get stronger.

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Its maybe not the case with you, but I was following a MV plan and substituting the weekend workouts for group rides (being summer and with the relaxation of things that was most weekends). AT never adapted my plan which seemed too easy too. I asked the question, would I be better off on a LV plan so AT can do its job? Ivy confirmed that and I subsequently went LV since then my plan has adapted harder a few times.

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