Build phase now too easy?

I was also a bit skeptical of AT, and wasn’t going to sign up for Beta if offered (after signing the list). However, I’ve found it very good so far. As soon as I did the plan, it offered adaptations. Depending on the progression level, even marking a workout “Hard” I do get adaptations.

Also, I haven’t been following the whole outdoor/ unstructured side, but when I’ve matched outdoor rides with a workout, I’ve got the adaptations I’d expect.

My progression levels pretty much match my strengths and weaknesses I had going in. As a ramp test underperformer, my only concern is really the first post test workouts - in a four week block that’s quite significant. I haven’t decided my best approach - I’m leaning towards skipping the ramp test in week 5 of (for example) an 8 week build and trust the progressions.

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I will say that I agree with the sentiment around AT. It’s been marketed as groundbreaking and will revolutionize my training, but I’ve found it pretty underwhelming. I stopped using it about a month and a half ago so maybe it’s gotten better, but it was just a hassle for me. Outside workouts never worked so my progression levels never changed. Then there was the issue with how to rate workouts, so I was only getting downgrades even though I was nailing workouts, that is, I’d completed VO2 max level 5s and 6s and then it would recommend 4s. With that said, I do like progression levels. I’ve been using them to build my plans, which is unfortunate that I’ve been having to do it myself. But they do make it somewhat easier. And alternates is nice to find a similar workout that is longer or shorter. So overall I’m still happy with TR. I’ve just not been impressed with AT. At least not as much as it was built up to be.

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Do all of your rides import into TR? Because looking at your calendar you always have lots of days off the week before your ramp tests (2 weeks with only a ride or two before some). You need deload weeks but trying to do a ramp test after 9 days of basically no riding probably won’t show the types of increases that you are expecting.

Also, your training load was much higher last year compared to this year. Last year you hit ~65 avg daily TSS while this year you’ve topped out at around 35. That amount of decrease will almost certainly result in lower FTP/fitness.

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Indeed i do not upload the light rides i do on rest weeks…
As for the load, for sure it has something to do with it, but for instance at the end of 2019 i had a higher FTP with even lower load.
In any case, i spent the late afternoon getting up to speed with AT on TR blog and will give it a shot for another block; can’t hurt.

Just to confirm, you added your blocks via plan builder, not manually?

Just a hypothetical here: Could it be that the old plans were working better for you, but worse for others? So maybe they changed the plans to match the needs of the many, and you were a fringe case and not representative of “normal”?

I am on the fringe, so I don’t assume their workouts would work for me exactly as prescribed. I use them as a guide, but adapt as needed. I am using AT as well, but can’t report how well it works since I am still mostly doing my own thing.

I pick the plans in the ‘training plans’ menu, select the phase once one is over and the plan.
I neder used the plan builder, only had a look at it; i do not need nor want to plan further than one phase. I really have no events to program for.

It’s probably how it went. And i’m quite certain i don’t represent “normal” as well as others.

AT currently only works with Plan Builder. :ok_hand:

Ok; so if i want to use AT but want to start from build phase, i should add the whole year then edit it? What a pain :grimacing:
If it’s the only way, good thing it’s weekend.

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Yes, I haven’t done it, but I think you could just put whatever race date way, way in the future. It might just give you multi base-build, or you just redo it when you get to the end you want to.

If you want to start at build phase but plan builder starts you with base, just backdate the start by 12 weeks.

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I started a whole thread on exactly this. Bottom line, AT led to pretty much a wasted summer of training for me. The plan was not intense enough at the start and it took to long to get up to the right level.

I was training for a trip to the Alps which didn’t happen due to C-19 and I’m glad it didn’t because I felt under prepared.

It will come right eventually, but you’ll have to wait a while for AT to get to know you, but in the meantime it’s not actually that great.

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See this is what I don’t get. If you think it’s too easy then MAKE it harder. It can’t read your brain, only the watts you put down. That simple. How is it that an old static plan is “better” than one that changes.

Ok so you might be manually changing the workouts in the beginning. That immediately puts you up progressions, and allows you to progress higher in you phase. Simple as that. No more worry if your ftp is over or under measured and you simply keep working thru progressions.

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I think it’s important to note that with Adaptive Training, the workouts you end up executing will almost certainly NOT be the ones in the default 6 week plan. That’s the whole point of Adaptive.

As you go through the initial workouts in the plan, finish them comfortably and rate them easy, the plan will present you with a harder workout (look at the progression leves) in that category the next week. You can accelerate this process a bit by using the Alternates feature to select a workout in the Stretch category.

Your post notes you “gave a look” at the plans, so of course you see the default plan. Until you actually execute a workout, and then Accept the recommended adaptations, the plan won’t change.

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I don’t find TR workouts to be “easy”. In fact, I find it exhausting. But maybe things has changed drastically since Prev I was using it like 1+ years ago.

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It has changed dramatically with the roll out of Adaptive Training (AT). As folk note above the plans do start out a little easy but if you are pushing yourself AT soon ramps them up.

The key issue is that if not using plan builder then AT wasn’t active anyway so use plan builder then will know if AT works for you or not.

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Of course, you can make the workouts harder, but that’s not a plan is it. TR reset the plans to make them easier for new subscribers to start with, but that impacted experienced subscribers who could handle more intensity/volume. The point is it takes a while for your levels to get up to where they should be, so as an experienced user loses out until they, or AT, find their level. For some that’s not acceptable.

I agree with the PLs although some do seem a bit strange. But the change to the plans, plus the intro of AT made the experience for me this year very frustrating and I definitely didn’t achieve the fitness I’d hoped for despite setting myself up for success through consistency, good diet, sleep etc.

I’m taking a different approach next cycle and will largely ignore the recommendations to take ownership of my own training, so let’s see what happens.

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As others have mentioned AT currently requires Plan Builder generated plans to work, you can’t just pick a plan and add it to your calendar. You also need to turn AT on via your profile settings.

It’s a pity that TR didn’t keep the old plans available for self-selection and let PB just use the new ones as a basis for AT. As it is now it forces you onto the new plans regardless of whether you are using AT.

There are a number of (very big) threads on Plan Builder and AT so you should be able to find what info you want in there if you dig long enough, the tip about back-dating the start of your plan to skip Base for example. You don’t get adaptations after every workout, that’s not the point, but if you show improvement or struggle in one area then AT will adjust things. I’ve had zero, two and over a dozen workouts swapped out following workouts.

I found AT a bit frustrating to begin with (which is why it was closed beta) but it’s working much better now, I’ve been doing all my workouts outdoors and it’s given me adaptations. Are they “optimal”? I’ve no idea: I’ve not seen the backward progressions that others have reported; the progression rate hasn’t been fast but I’ve not felt burnt out. That’s something that was mentioned on either the original podcast about AT or one shortly after: the internal testers thought the training stress was too low but they were comparing it to the TSS of the older plans and AT was working out how each of them coped before it ramped things up.

Also remember that we tend to fixate on FTP as a “target” to improve but you can improve elsewhere without your FTP changing. It’s the same with Progression Levels: they are just a snapshot of where AT thinks you are at the present time. Change your FTP and those levels will change to reflect that. So don’t chase PL improvements for the sake of it.

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