The consistency factor cannot be stressed enough. It is worthy of its own metric and would likely be far more useful than some of the stuff we currently chart.
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Considering the amount of times we see these comments about consistency from TR reps (and the other hints about the upcoming features) I will be very surprised if consistency, compliance or other metric/name is not part of the new tools.
It’s claimed to be the leading factor in many ways from what they have said, so it should be addressed in a measurable way.
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I’ll put in my usual plug for TrainingPeaks and WKO. For data geeks. They’ve been tracking and charting compliance for years.
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This would actually be an easy metric to show for TR plans (or scheduled workouts). Actual/planned TSS, over time. If you follow the plan fully, you’ll see a straight line at 100%. Any ‘failed’ workouts will give you an obvious dip. A consistantly climbing line will mean you’re above power target in your workouts and should adjust your FTP.
You can’t really see that that well in the current TSS chart (outdoor rides, weeky summaries etc).
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If you pre enter your planned rides in TrainingPeaks it automatically color codes the completed rides on your calendar green, yellow or red based on your choice of TSS, time or distance vs target. That should be a piece of cake for TR to do.
WKO graphs compliance in more detail.
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Yes, but I am lazy. I do push to TP, but I don’t add anything planned. The great thing about Trainerroad is that I needed about 5 mouse clicks to plan my training for a year.
As you said, it should be extremely easy to add a graph or a metric like that.
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I think you’re overthinking this. If you enjoy the trainer and are hitting your goals, ride the trainer.
If you prefer outdoors and are hitting your goals, ride outdoors.
This is about you and your training, not anyone else! Do what makes YOU HAPPY!
There are lots of discussions on here about inside vs outside…there are pluses and minuses to both. Don’t worry what the other guy is doing, just make sure you’re getting faster, AND HAVING FUN!
Good luck!
Brendan
EVOQ.BIKE
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All TrainerRoad is structured training but not all structured training is TrainerRoad.
I de-emphasised TR when doctor’s orders cut me off from high intensity work. I’m currently engaged in a prolonged ‘Traditional Base’ of sorts. Still very structured w/ fitness test every month, ramp rates, objectives, etc., but no requirement for TR type interval work (I miss you, Rattlesnake 
).
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I do want to point out something that I think was missed during this thread. Although, I admit I didn’t read every response.
I think it is very important that we are doing the training that makes us happy, keeps us engaged and allows us to be consistent with our training.
Just because a friend is telling you something, doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong, rather it is their opinion. A lot of people like to hate on stuff that they don’t use. I see it all the time in cycling. Friend or foe, you need to sometimes tell them that you appreciate their opinion and leave it at that.
I’ve gotten similar comments about my use of TR. So, on Strava I have turned my settings such that I have to manually show everyone a ride.
For me, I do know that my biggest gains have been when I’ve consistently followed a TR plan. Every time I work in a lot of outside rides I will hit a plateau on my FTP development. Sure, I make other gains by going out with other people and riding, it’s a break from riding inside and fun. But, I think that I would do myself a favor by staying inside if performance was my solitary goal.
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- Yup, covered directly above:
- Hinted at with the motivation aspect in my post:
The fun/happy/enjoyment aspect will be different for everyone. For some, it’s getting the top step of the podium or nipping a close rival at the line not matter the position. For others, it may be the completion of a large challenge or adventure.
It’s good to consider, but also recognize that each of us has different goals and motivations for doing the riding and training that we do.
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I offered free months to friends who then told me they sold their trainers because they hate riding indoors. Meanwhile, with smart trainer, fan, TR and a little Z, I love it. I can really bury myself indoors in ways I never would in traffic/on the road. To each, their own.
I enjoyed the feeling of accomplishment from finishing Washington +2 yesterday as much as some of my races this season. I love the challenge.
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I’m a typical middle-aged enthusiast who’s been cycling “seriously” for seven years and training indoors for four. Mostly TR during that time. In previous years I would pause my sub around March but this year I’ve kept it going. Normally I would have a lot more road miles in and at least one century/gran fondo by now. But due to weather or being forced to admit I have commitments besides riding a bike I’ve found myself on the trainer a lot more this year. The lack of road miles is also explained by the fact that I’m focused on developing trail skills. I’ve gained 25 on my FTP since March. Last weekend I rode 3.5 hours on some moderate tech trails followed by a 70 mile road ride the next day. That was the longest road ride I’ve done this year. It should’ve been a piece of cake but my legs were pretty dead by hour 3. This leads me to conclude that TR and long road rides at low/moderate intensity do different things and are equally important.
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So in two years of training he went from 300…to 300 FTP. I’ve been a huge fan of TR and a pretty regular user for 3 years and have raised my FTP from 179 to a high point of 260. I’ve kind of plateaued now and am struggling to make new gains. Frankly, I’m trying another platform that incorporates a strength and yoga plan to see if I can get a breakthrough. I understand that there’s a ceiling for everyone and the gains will come smaller and harder as time goes on. It’s at that point that people will start to look elsewhere. Again, I’m a big fan of TR, keeping my Sub even though I’m not using it right now. I do feel like you need to evolve your plans a bit though. Despite a promised deep dive on polarized training - that podcast seems to have been shelved. At some point I think you must acknowledge that solely basing your training on FTP is going to lead to less than optimum results and plateaus.
Brandon is a high level athlete who peaks for events. You can see when he did a stage race earlier this year (which got him his cat 1 upgrade) he peaked at a 321 FTP at 62 kg, so just under 5.2 watts/kg. Adjust this to sea level and that’s 5.4 watts/kg.
That’s an extremely high level, especially considering his relatively low volume for an athlete at that level.
Brandon lowers his training through the year and hovers around 4.8. He does this because he’s married and has a full time job.
It sounds like you don’t call this a win. We absolutely call this a win.
As for polarized I’ve talked about it in the polarized thread.
Anything to add @bnied?
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Same here. I don’t post anything from indoors but 80% of my work is indoors. A friend thought he had been doing a lot more work than me.
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I absolutely agree! That is a big win!
That’s the same as my peak. 323 FTP at 62kgs. I tried to maintain this level for too long and ended up training myself into the ground. Totally destroyed my fitness, health, and put a dent in my mental state. I also have a wife, a full time job and two young children. I’m going to build back up and try and adjust my training intensity as you mentioned Brandon does. Durability and consistency are what I’m aiming for.
Nope you’re spot on Nate. My training/racing schedules are almost always around peaking for a couple stage races during the year. After those races are done I completely shut down for a couple weeks before starting to build back up again.
From last December through my main race of the year this year I was exclusively indoors other than test workouts and races, and saw my FTP go from 280 to 321 as Nate mentioned.
In terms of going from 300 to 300 in the past 2 years, I’d say that is normally pretty close to what I can stick to off a low amount of volume. When I really ramp things up I’ll get to around 320-330 when peaking for an A event.
I’d also point out that the race I peaked for this year (San Dimas Stage Race) had me more focused on long VO2 max efforts than the highest possible FTP. I peaked for a 16ish minute uphill time trial, meaning I’d be going significantly over FTP.
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Stringwise,
I would like to share an alternative view that fits my circumstances, perhaps not yours.
I live at the base of some of the most beautiful canyons in the United States (Wasatch Front, Utah). However, I ride TR 6 days a week (with exception of 2-3 months of the year where I need to have 7-9 hour days in the saddle - long Saturday rides.) I have witnessed in our community what seems to be an exponential increase in auto-bike accidents. Moreover, the ability to ride when I need to ride (4:30 - 5:00 AM) is absolutely essential. Setting aside all of the physiological and efficiency benefits of the trainer, my wife (and family) are much more tolerant of my (training time) when they know I am safe and can be interrupted if needed. While I lose some psychological benefits of being on the road, I find those can be made up in other ways.
Michael
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I’m not denying his ability or in any way implying that hovering between 300 and 320 FTP is “not a win”. At a lower level I think my results are similar - I hover around 240 and if I really stay consistent I can peak around 270ish. It’s breaking through to that 300 level that has me looking for additional and/or alternate methods. I was trying to answer the original poster’s question “at what pont do you de-emphasize TR”, because I find myself in that situation. TR is absolutely my favorite platform in many ways and I hope you’ll evolve your plans and testing protocol. There’s no denying that one person’s 270 FTP is vastly different than another’s. Solely focusing on improving that metric is going to limit your gains.
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The time to de-emphasize ANY training regime is when you aren’t happy with the results and/or not enjoying the process.
I still ride TR 4-5 rides per week, but I’ve been trying to move more outdoors because I feel I’ve hit a plateau in terms of hill climbing and race results. I don’t feel the trainer really helps quite as much for hills due to subtle muscle activation differences, and it certainly doesn’t help for bike handling or race results
edit: helping → handling
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