Thankfully, that “extra set” or “extra interval” question is only one aspect of the survey question. My personal list based upon the TR info gives 4 data points to review for each response option. Even when the Set/Interval aspect may be ambiguous, the other aspects should be functional.
That is simply not true. TR gave us this info, direct from Ivy. I underlined the sections related to your comment (sets/intervals) for quick reference.
I’m not sure if I’m alone in this, but I do frequently do my workouts by feel, and go above the target watts when I feel good, and this certainly complicates my responses as I don’t know hard it would have been if I stuck to the prescribed watts.
Yup, I have done the same. But since I had a long discussion with TR about that manipulation, and the lack of appropriate ‘Super Pass’ implementation, it should be avoided.
For now, it’s best to perform the workout in front of you. I have chosen to limit my Intensity adjustments to a 97% to 103% setting. If I need more than than, I should have done a different workout (mainly if I want harder) or I am having an off day (for lower drops).
So, read yourself before clicking to load a workout, decide if you want more than what is in front of you, and swap in a better choice with the Alternates if that’s the case. Stick to the workout and answer the survey approriately.
Once TR gets better reading of workouts (mainly for over target work), that can be handled differently, but we are not there yet.
Thanks for the advice. I completely understand TR is at the beginning of the AT journey, so we can’t expect a full implementation at this point, but it’s also important to know the current limitations.
I don’t know about you, but I have no idea how good or bad my legs will be prior to a workout. This is only an issue when doing vo2max or over/under workouts. There is no problem sticking to the prescribed intensity during SS, becuase if you go higher, then you are creeping into a threshold workout and that’s not the intended purpose.
When it comes to v02max and over/unders though, I just assume they are meant to be ‘hard’ or ‘very hard’, so I just go by feel and sometimes that means I go above the targets. So, I just make sure they are at least hard I suppose and the watts are what they end up being. I wouldn’t do this with anything below threshold however.
Keep in mind that is all relative to your Progression Level, and the Workout Level too. A 1.0 workout with you at 1.0 may be “hard”, but I expect that is unlikely for most unless they are really coming in with minimal training.
There is a full 0.0 to 10.0 range for each of these workout levels, so the expected difficulty can vary, and will definitely be the case depending on your current PL vs that WOL.
The difficulty rating (Achievable, Productive, Stretch, etc.) is a clue to the expected challenge in a general sense, but people will still have different experiences.
We have to keep in mind that these aren’t workouts in isolation (assuming normal TR plan use, not Train Now or random workout use). We are at stages of a plan, and it’s not the case that every workout should be “HARD” in the broad sense (not survey rating). Depending on which phase you are in, and the stage in that phase, you may have different demands via what AT & Plan Builder intend. Short story… it’s complex.
Yep I hear you. Maybe this is a lingering narrative in my head from the past from running coaches where my hard workouts were ‘hard’ and my easy workouts were ‘easy’. The idea being, that you always go hard when it’s supposed to be hard - it never gets easier, but just gets faster (or in this case more watts hopefully!). Was that Greg Lemond that said that??
I’m not suggesting to bury yourself during over/unders or vo2max intervals, but I still believe you should be completing them to your highest average watts consistently per set without fading. This approach has always served me well tbh. This also doesn’t mean you won’t progress well through the PLs either, but maybe the levels chase you for a while until they catch up so to speak.
Might have missed it but I was wondering where I should consider my “survey point” on bookend threshold workouts like Crater. I mean at the end of the threshold block I might be like “that was hard” but after the tempo I could definitely consider it moderate.
You are supposed to look at the whole workout in it’s entirety, not particular segments or points other than the end.
Do keep in mind that TR ignores warm up & cool down, so if you manipulate those to extend or alter their intensity, those have no actual impact on the TR AT evaluation at the completion of the workout, and should not factor in the survey answer.
Came here with the exact same question. Finished a two hour Endurance ride which I was really, really glad to see end. Marked it as “Hard” at which point I got the follow-up survey asking me why I found it too hard. Now it’s marked as ‘Too Intense’. Not sure I can live with the shame…
Everyone is different…most of my rides are marked as moderate, a number are marked as easy. The only rides that get marked hard is if I struggle to complete an interval or feel like I was really working hard and uncertain I could compete the workout.
I reply to the survey based on the effects that it will have on future workouts, as I understand it.
1-easy: give me much harder workouts
2-moderate: give me harder workouts
3-hard: give me more workouts of this level (+ the normal increase already present in the plan)
4-very hard: reduce the difficulty
5-all out: reduce the difficulty even more
In my understanding, all workouts should be painful enough, but the level of pain expected will vary for everybody. Some people want to barely be able to stand after a workout, others want just a good exercise not adding too much stress in their life. Of course results will vary greatly between these two approaches, but it is expected. In my understanding, both type of people should answer hard when they find the level of workout they want, even if the pain they perceive is much different.
I tend to find most of my responses are moderate, but I have had a few hards. I try and work out my response on the last interval, by the time I have done with warm down I have forgotten the pain and it is moderate again
There’s a chart that’s been making the rounds that has a similar breakdown. Depending on where I am in the build/recover cycle I usually expect a threshold or vo2 workout to be “hard” or “very hard”.
(That’s why I was surprised after a recent VO2 workout—when I answered the survey with “Hard” it gave me the “Failure” follow-up survey and subsequently marked the ride as “Too Intense”.)
That’s close to my experience but not 100%. It pretty much holds true for Progressive workouts.
There’s been a few times though where I have rated workouts that were supposed to be Achievable as 3 or 4 (for whatever reason - sleep, nutrition) and got a struggle survey for that.
There also seems to be an element of learning involved; clearly some people will rate workouts harder or easier than others and it accounts for that over time (fairly sure the learning aspect was mentioned on the podcast)
Yeah I am the same, try and come up with a rating during the final interval…
Generally if the workout was supposed to be Achievable and the PL is significantly below your current PL, AT thinks you found it harder than it was expecting.
Probably answered further up in the post but I can’t rememeber and don’t have time to scroll back through 200 posts…
I’ve started to do a lot of other activities outside of TR like trampolining and gymnastics, but I’m still trying to stick to the LV program. I did a threshold workout this morning and labelled it “very hard” as it was! But when asking for the reason, I labelled it training fatigue, which is it (!) but its not TR training fatigue.
Just wondering if this will still work as intended?
I suppose as I am fatigued, my TR may need to ramp down for a while and AT is/will handle this.
