Here’s a problem that I don’t understand how to solve. I’m not aero. I’m flexible, my bike fits me, but I just cannot get into a position that reduces my frontal areas and lowers my drag coefficient.
I’m usually the tallest rider in whatever race I’m doing, and I’m not light (92KG), and am flabbergasted at how these tiny climber types can average 18+ mph over the course of a gravel race at an average power 160-170w (60% of my FTP). Meanwhile, my average watts for the race end up being at sweet spot.
It seems too easy for them.
Is this something that can be solved or am I just stuck being not aero?
“I just cannot get into a position that reduces my frontal areas and lowers my drag coefficient.” - really? Lean forward more, get on the hoods, get a more aerodynamic frame, get more aerodynamic wheels, tighter fitting jersey, etc.
I don’t race gravel, but on the road, drafting is everything. On the road, being 6" from the wheel of someone as big or bigger than you gives a huge advantage. Is your competition racing in a pack and you aren’t? Are you not able to find someone to draft that is more your size?
It sounds like your real question may be “why am I getting smoked in gravel races?”. Not necessarily “why does aerodynamics break down in my general vicinity” Or maybe not, and you just need some tips on being more aero. I’ve learned a ton about riding and racing from watching hours of YouTube videos.
You are gonna be at a disadvantage since your legs are likely long and have frontal area that you cant do much about, but you really need to make sure the top part is perfecto. Its not comfortable at first, but keep working on getting your arms parallel to the ground. Ganna is big, he gets areo
Getting into a half decent ‘aero’ position isn’t the actual problem for me.
I’m reasonably flexible and prefer a longer stem on my setup which allows a half decent stretched out position on the hoods.
The problem is HOLDING that position for longer than a few minutes without relaxing back into a more upright stance.
Practice makes perfect and I don’t have the mental capacity to focus on my position when doing indoor intervals (my Wattbike has a different setup to my road bike anyway) so I’m limited to practicing holding on outdoor rides.
Confession time - a fair bit of the time outdoors I can’t be arsed as I’m just riding for fun. Hence generally I’ve seen only marginal improvements in being able to hold an aero stance over the past few years.
I’m convinced if I was into TTs and / or still raced anything other than very occasionally then it would give me a good enough reason and incentive to knuckle down and repeatedly practice; which for sure would make a big difference in quite a short time.
But I’m not and I don’t.
The point being, practicing HOLDING a good aero position takes an investment in time and also a feedback loop of some sort (time on a segment / average speed / observation from a trusted friend on how low you ACTUALLY are compared to how it feels / some video footage maybe).
Thanks for the reply, let me address a few of your points…
I’m not able to lean anymore forward. Either my bike setup isn’t conducive to it or my body geometry won’t allow. Like I said, I’m quite flexible, but perhaps not enough?
My bike is a Cervelo Aspero with a 110mm stem which ends up being around 610mm of reach, give or take. I could go longer on the stem, but I don’t find that that really makes me more aero, just more uncomfortable. I’ve played with 120-140mm stems. Doesn’t help.
I do not want to throw money at this “problem”, my bike and wheels (Bontrager Aeolus Pro 3V) are here to stay. I love my current setup.
As mentioned, its hard to find a good draft. I’m an experienced racer and am very mindful of sticking my nose into the wind. This isn’t a “doing too much work” problem. Even just riding solo I noticed people who have a 100w lower FTP than I do are averaging speeds 1+ MPH than I am on my current routes. If power isn’t the factor then I have to assume it’s their aero advantage. Perhaps I’m not giving enough credence to a set of 50mm aero wheels and 28c tires compared to my 35mm wheels and 40c tires. Admittedly.
I’m not saying that I’m getting smoked in races. I actually have had some really solid results, but in order to do so I’m spending A LOT of the race at or near FTP, and it’s ends up making the race very hard. While the smaller riders are expending a lot less energy.
I have a buddy with a 240w FTP who is 68kg finish well ahead of me (285w FTP @ 92KG). I chalk it up to two things:
His power to weight ratio smokes me on any sort of climb that isn’t a sprint
His aero advantage allows him to ride at much lower percentage of his FTP on the flats
Yeah, this is probably my “issue” is that my current bars don’t offer enough drop (they are Zipp gravel bars with a pretty mild amount of drop" so going from the hoods to the drops doesn’t really lower my position all that much. I’ve also added 2-3cm of stack for comfort.
Pictures would be useful. There are certainly body shapes which make it harder to get aero (broad shoulders don’t help) but if you’re lean, flexible and have decent core strength (or are prepared to work on those things which are all trainable) then should be possible to find a pretty good aero position. Plenty of tall pros who manage it (e.g. Josh Tarling is 6’4")
On gravel there are also a bunch of other speed suckers including tire choice and pressure. You confident you’ve nailed your setup?
I know that W/kg is more important on climbs, and pure watts takes over on flat, but even with that I don’t think pure watts are enough to overcome 3.53w/kg vs 3.11w/kg. My opinion is that at 92kg, you’re just going to need more than 285w FTP to place well. Not sure what your goals are or how competitive your races are, but for example I have a good friend who’s right at 91-92kg as well (albeit shorter and wider, he’s probably 178cm if I had to guess), and it takes a 350+ FTP for him to get overall podium at local races, and top 20 in larger races when some local pros show up.
Some pictures could help if you want to keep optimizing or at least have a good check of aero. Have someone take a side pic and a frontal shot, and we can come up with ideas. But if you are already low and narrow, have aero-ish bike/wheels, tight fitting clothes, no handlebar bag, etc, then any aero optimization from there will be small potatoes, especially at amateur gravel race speeds (~18mph as you say).
I’ll have to take some pics to paint a better picture. My best results were in 2021-2022 when I was 86KG w/330-340w FTP. That was a good enough power/weight to consistently podium local cat 3 CX races, and be mid-pack in the 100 rider fields at UCI events like Waterloo (Trek). I could also do top 10’s in local 40-60 mi gravel races. I’ve since put on some muscle and fat.
So yes, I don’t currently have the numbers to overcome even a 0.50w/kg difference, but am still wondering if a more aero position could help. I just can’t seem to unlock that position.
A guy I know just did Seattle to Portland (200mi) and averaged 20.2 mph with an average power of only 160w…I can’t even do that averaging 250.
To illustrate my point, here are a few gravel races over the last couple years, ranging from the most current (least fittest), to my most fit. I just feel like I have to put out a lot (for me) of watts to hang with the small guys. Seems like there are very few points in a gravel race where there’s a long enough straight stretch to drop a small rider in a wattage contest. We’re always in a pack and they can hide, recover.
Pics would really help to look at aero. Otherwise there isn’t much anyone can add in that regard.
Another consideration, without any knowledge of the courses or groups you’re riding in, would be bike handling/efficiency.
Last weekend I raced a crit that I would only describe as very mildly technical. I was in a break with two other riders from lap 2, both shorter and lighter than me. Yes, I take being aero seriously, but I also focus on cornering technique and was noticeably faster than them in corners. I averaged 50W less than them for the race.
Holding an aero position requires decent trunk and arm strength. If you aren’t training these areas then it will be hard to hold a low position regardless of flexibility
Think of aero as strength dependent more than flexibility dependent
Likely your arms, back, or glute strength are limiting your ability to hold aero more than any flexibility issues
Train the position you want, train the muscles it uses
This topic hits close to home for me. I’ve got pretty decent power for my age group, but I know there are significant gains to be made if I could get more aero. I’d argue that aero often matters more in gravel racing than road racing since gravel often play out more like classics racing with singles or small groups on the road. It’s almost always a break away of some form, so time in the wind is often inevitable.
I’ve found some stretching routines online to help improve hip angle (a limiter for me) and a couple other resources, but I’ve found it pretty hard to pull together a proper “program” to improve position on the bike. Anyone have anything they can share? It’s going to be a project for me during the off season.
Thanks for the insight. It’s 100% not a strength issue, I know that with certainty. It’s a hip angle issue. I hit a point and just can’t get my back any more flatter. Not sure if that’s a flexibility thing or just my physiology.
I would need to see that in real life. Not sure what the wind is like on that route, but I am a smaller rider (167cm, 66kg) at 4w/kg on an aero road bike and aero wheels, and there’s no way I can come close to 20mph on just 160 watts. Even with minimal climbing, I would expect 200+ average watts.
Another factor in off-road racing when you"re heavy is the amount of decceleration from bumps and lumps. You need to be extra good at unweightling the bike and pickimg a good line. Yes you have more momentum than someone lighter, but you also hit everything harder.
Flat out I don’t think you realize how much of a disadvantage this W/KG difference is. Being so tall and heavy, your main advantage needs to be power to overcome both the weight and aero penalty compared to this friend. You’d honestly likely need to have a 350w ftp on a hilly course to beat him. And it wouldn’t be on the longer climbs.
A flat back isn’t necessary to be aero. It can help, but it’s not at the pointy end of gains
If you’re having hip angle issues consider shorter cranks. One of the main gains there is the ability to improve hip angle limitations and adjusting into a more aero position as a result
Similarly, if you can’t lower your front end because of the hips you can look at raising it up to close the gap between hands and head from the other direction
Or maybe not, and you just need some tips on being more aero. I’ve learned a ton about riding and racing from watching hours of YouTube videos.
