I was in a similar position to you - having done SSBHV last season and finishing them fatigued, but in fine shape - even with adding in some TSS on the weekends.
I have moved a bit towards a TB model but am sort of playing it by ear based on how I respond.
I just finished a three week break and started back in with this last week
If time permits I will extend all of the weekend workouts, hopefully into the 3-4 hour range, but depends on life.
If I respond well to a block like this I will build out a similar four week one to cover the rest of November and December. If I don’t respond well then I will re-evaluate and try something different - either SSBMV with adding substantial endurance time to the end of every workout or pure TB.
Mostly curious how I do with a polarized approach, but also experimenting a bit with fasted rides (only on the easy stuff) to see if I can get some efficiencies towards the end of 3-4 hour road races.
You appear to have more time available than I do - given between 40-45 TSS/hour in Z2 you’d need to be around 20 hours to get 800 TSS/week if you never stray from that intensity. If you add in a single interval session you can reduce time dramatically - thus my approach above
If someone could “guarantee” that doing SSBHV1+2 with allot of extra SS and Z2 is overkill and would benefit this year and the coming years from switching some or all of my SS to endurance i would do so in a heartbeat, i do have office job 100% + some overtime but when im off work i can train.
I love SS, as much as i hate 90+minutes of pure ±65%FTP work.
Last year was a bit much, thats why im reducing some Z2 TSS but keeping up the added SS. I survived, but the last 5 mondays i felt like a zombie, but i did upping my FTP and TSS to the end.
Here is my last week – one “sweet spot” session on Sunday, that got sabotaged by a sidewall cut.
Duration 14:24:39
12000 kj
TSS: 708
Ramp for the week: 0 (the flat tire botched a +1 ramp for the week*)
Time/TSS:
Mon 1:50:56 95 TSS
Tue 1:51:50 100 TSS
Wed 2:00:04 95 TSS
Thurs 1:45:01 86 TSS (weight training after)
Fri 1:33:38 92 TSS
Sat 4:00:54 166 TSS
Sun :53:24 63 TSS (tire blew); :28:55 10 TSS (nursing the patch home) (30min 400cal row and weight training after)
I’m going to aim for 15 hours, and 750 TSS this week. Trying to ramp slowly as I’m at 100 CTL right now (down from a 122 peak in Sept). Available time and limiting intensity means that I probably won’t be doing 800 TSS+ weeks any time soon. Next season starts in mid-Feb 2020.
but it ain’t all about ramp: did a 40min block at 89%, which was the hardest I’ve ridden in 6 weeks; gained a rep on squats and dead lifts; I’ll take those as improvement for the week…
I’ve finished Trad Base 1 and 2, and am in the middle of 10 days continuous travel. Coming back from the road I’m doing a vo2 block that looks like that, with a focus on progressing out to 15-20 minutes time in zone (vo2 is a weakness). And then re-evaluate at end, and continue with either another vo2 block or start SSB to work on strength endurance.
I’ve never had an issue with strength endurance (has been a strength), although I must say I’ve always trained a significant amount of sweet spot. I’m curious how blocks such as the ones we’re both looking at will impact that but don’t have a great way to test it out. Maybe I’ll try mixing in longer threshold intervals if I do a second block
Again, this may backfire, but my first Base block is going to me modeled after how Jack Daniels would train an 800-1600m runner.
Two “sweet spot” days of 2 x 20 fartleks --20-minute efforts of :30 @ 125%, 2:00 @ 75% FTP by 5 min. Should normalize to 90% for the interval. Muscular endurance is my strength – short efforts are my weakness. Also, Daniels would train “repetition pace” – a little speed – before going to sustained sub-threshold. I’ll give it a go.
One long day of 4 hrs+
everything else just turning over at ~60% to do 1500kj or work and keep off the weight.
"The main findings were that (1) POL led to the greatest improvement in VO2peak, TTE and V/Ppeak; (2) V/P4 increased after POL and HIIT; (3) no significant differences in work economy were observed pre to post between any of the groups; and finally (4) body mass decreased by 3.7% in response to HIIT.
For the beginning of my block I’ve departed from the 4x4-min vo2 (90-95% HRpeak) used in the study, and likely won’t have enough time to do all the hours. The wattkg website has plans alternating between short vo2 work (30/15s) one week, and long vo2 work (4x6-min progressing to 4x8-min) the second week. So I’ve thought about doing the same. I’m going to adjust by feel.
To my eyes, I see this as a natural “raise oxygen uptake (vo2) to increase FTP headroom for SS strength endurance” bridge. Thats why I’m sandwiching between trad base 1 & 2, and sweet spot base. And although its in the context of Ironman training, Dan Lorang the head coach of Bora Hansgrohe uses a vo2 block before strength endurance. Time will tell.
Thanks for the details - largely lines up with what I’ve read and what I have planned as well. My only remaining planning concern is whether the time I can put in is sufficient to reap the benefits from this methodology - I guess we will see in a few weeks or maybe months if I stick with it
Are you planning doing this polarized program as base?.
What is youre next program after the 9 weeks?.
But it seems hard to keep CTL up with so low recovery weeks every 3rd week, thoughts about that? (i know that means we should do even more in week 1 and 2 on the right days, and thats what seperates us from the pros with unlimited time).
I was thinking about trying to do something close to what you made after in done with SSB
I prefer to think of it as an “aerobic booster block” (and not polarized). This fall I’ve completed traditional base (TB) 1 and 2, and at the end of TB2 was just starting to feel better overall “aerobic fitness” including lactate clearance (easier to push the pedals hard). So this aerobic booster block is hopefully going to keep picking up benefits of aerobic base workouts, while starting to increase oxygen uptake with intervals that are designed to increase maximum aerobic capacity. I’m predicting that will give me some additional headroom to grow FTP during sweet spot base. That is the theory, like I said it is an experiment.
After this aerobic work, I’m going to do TR’s SSB1 and SSB2 to work on pushing the pedals hard (muscular strength endurance). After that I’m planning to do TR’s short power build and modify to do outside with more max efforts (to build FRC).
I’m sure this has been mentioned but my experience of completing Trad Base starting in Jan for a Sept onwards cyclocross season was positive.
Prior to this I hadn’t been completing a lot of ‘endurance’ rides so there was probably instant benefit there. I didn’t increase my FTP instead built time and TSS over the 12 weeks. I wasn’t racing so any real world ‘feel’ was more around being able to sustain consistent/smooth power (albeit relatively low) and it felt like I could complete longer outdoor road rides more consistently.
I then implemented a SS build (I wrote my own with TR workouts interspersed where I just increased time in SS over a period of 9 weeks). This is where my FTP shot up from 202w in Dec to 236w in June @ 55kg. I got to the point I could complete 2 x 20 mins which was more than enough for 45 mins of CX racing and got me into a good place for team time trials which happen around this time of year.
I then topped it off with an 8 week threshold build at the same FTP. I wasn’t quite as successful here and only managed to get to about 6 mins @ threshold before the season started but it put me in a great spot for the start of the season and I’ve been able to maintain it.
I’m starting to plan for 2020 and I’m considering exactly the same approach although I’d like to spend more time on my threshold work so I feel really strong here.
I considered going straight into a SS base for 2020 but 1. how would I fill the 9 months?! 2. I want some low intensity work after 4 months of racing! 3. I’d like a period of heavy weights at the gym and I find injury risk increases whilst I’m in SS build.
So I’m going Trad Base again following the TR programme. I may add in a few more drill workouts for efficiency, strength and power.
Interesting you mention that. I have always been kind of skeptical of aerobic decoupling as a metric, because of how volatile hr is. Like, for that to actually be useful, wouldn’t you have to always train at the same temperature, eat and drink at the same time (make sure you either never switch positions or keep those consistent as well?
I’m currently doing a traditional base approach for 10 weeks until Xmas, after which I plan to start SSHV1 and into SSHV2.
I’ve never spent this much time in Z2 before, and my hours on the trainer the last 5 weeks have been pushing some of the most i’ve spent even when outdoor riding has been included. I certainly FEEL good, mentally the rides are a struggle especially when staring down a 3hr z2 workout. But 45min blocks seem to melt away now without much of an issue.
I’m interested to see how this all translates to a HV plan with similiar time in saddle but a whole different zone being targetted. It’s easy to have a “bad day” and still grind out a z2 workout. It’s another thing when you start into sweet spot work.
The one thing I have learned in the past is that my anaerobic engine fires up quickly and hard, so i’m not overly concerned about getting my short power back in the spring. My real limiter has been my aerobic capacity and engine and I am hoping that this work addresses that.
to get started I ratched down intensity on easy days - Townsend instead of Colosseum/Baxter, and Bays +2 is now at 65% instead of 75%. Decided to go with the 4x4-min intervals in the paper.
I really enjoyed the three week block I built out. It was nice to be able to focus strictly on two hard days a week - mentally and physically.
I am having a hard time evaluating the efficacy right now as I’ve just started my fourth week (a recovery week) and was starting this block after three weeks off. Overall I’ve increased my FTP 12 watts during the three weeks but I can’t say if that’s just rebounding from the time off or due to the approach
I’ve put together my next block similar to the last one - but there are some changes. I’m now doing VO2 Tuesday, Sweet Spot Thursday, Threshold Saturday, and endurance Wednesday, Friday, Sunday. I think adding some increasing duration sweet spot should be sustainable and should get my muscular endurance moving again.
Block is actually four weeks on/one week off because I have a two week vacation starting at Christmas so want to be pretty deep in the hole by then. The four weeks looks like this
I have two concerns about what you and I are both doing @bbarrera.
First - are the workouts we’re picking as the VO2 sessions hard enough? I felt that Ainslie +7 wasn’t pushing me deep enough when I did it last week, but I don’t know if that’s due to my response to the training or me having picked too simple of a workout
Second - is this too much or not enough volume? I’m barely getting to 10 hours/week (thus the addition of sweet spot) and I just don’t have a great feel for how much I need to target to recognize the benefits from this approach
Thanks @trpnhntr for the update, and on my side there is also some concern which has me thinking about several things:
how to measure progress and determine when I’ve reached point of diminishing returns
in 4 years of cycling I’ve got a handful, maybe two handfuls, of weeks >10 hours and not sure I can pull off my 9 week intervention with two loading weeks of 11.5 hours each during each 3-week block
despite basing my plan on a paper utilizing an intervention with 4x4-min HIT sessions, I’m planning on extending 4x4-min intervals out to 4x8-min and then switching to 30/15s and/or 40/20s over the 9 week intervention. While I have some understanding of the physiological basis for this block, unsure about progressing duration of vo2 intervals and then switching to short vo2 intervals (other than some research that 4x8-min and 30/15s are “better” than 4x4-min)
the lack of “pushing the pedals hard” (sweet spot / threshold) on 20-60 minute intervals which has worked well for me in the past
My reasons for trying this approach versus switching to sweet spot after 8 weeks of traditional base 1 and 2:
pursue additional aerobic development using alternative to sweet spot
make it easier to continue concurrent strength training in gym with endurance training on the bike
This block is going to be a stretch for me, as a masters 55+ rider with a lot of 7am-5pm time commitments. My thought process still has the result being an increased aerobic engine and durability ahead of doing some longer SS work starting mid Jan. BTW I’m timing the 30/15s and/or 40/20s for crits starting in late January.
