Thank you Chad. I was worried that some responses would be that it was unrealistic, but somehow the way you put it actually makes me feel kind of relieved in a way.
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And to re-reference a worthwhile chart via TR info, check out the Men 40-50 chart for men in this post.
Top of bell curve for men
- 40-50 : 2.75 - 3.0 FTP/kg
This is not absolute or conclusive (since itâs only TR rider data), but shows that those at or above 4.0w/kg in the 40-50 range are the outside end of the curve. Worthwhile perspective that is likely more relevant than the Coggan chart, at least for us older riders.
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Just curious, but what does your diet and sleep look like. I am a much smaller guy, 64kg and I think that it is much easier for someone my size to make it to 4w/kg. But I am also older as well.
I will be 57 next month next month and I have always known that sleep was my limiter, but I had never really tested it until the last few months.
Because of time constraints, I have always gotten up at 4:00am and rode at about 5:00am, so getting much more than about 6 hrs of sleep a night was really difficult. But after about six months with almost no gains, I decided to do my very best for a couple of months to force myself to get more sleep.
I immediately started to see improvements. I have been hanging out at around or just below 4w/kg for a little while now, but I really feel like if I could figure out a way to average 8 hours plus of sleep per night for a year, even at my age, I think that I can get to 4.5 w/kg. But for me at least the sleep is absolutely mandatory.
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I want to jump in and address a few things we noticed about your workouts and training history with us.
Other athletes on this thread are asking you really good questions, the answers to which could all potentially result in an impact of your progression as a cyclist, and within TrainerRoad. Apart from speculating what could be going on though, we do have a lot more insight based upon your ride data that is worth addressing to clear up some confusion.
You do a lot of your workouts outside, which is great! The most significant point of possible confusion weâve noticed in your workouts is how your Outside Workouts differ from their intended goals and structure, where the goals of the workout itself are not being achieved.
Iâll be brief about the training implications of that, but as a result, youâre missing out on they key work assigned in those intervals that ultimately help you get faster.
When we talk about workout compliance within intervals and rest, you should be able to see from the ride file the general structure matching the original profile of the workout, and there are definitely ways you could improve this in your key workouts that would have a meaningful impact on your fitness and FTP gains. Iâd be happy to set up a zoom or even just DM you with more explicit examples of this and how those key workouts can be improved upon!
It might sound cliche, but truthfully, the best way to ensure you dont get faster with TrainerRoad (or any program) is to not follow the plan. That said, working on consistent, smooth power that aligns with your targets (for both work and rest), and answering post-workout surveys honestly once you start really nailing those workout goals will change the outcome of your success in TrainerRoad pretty drastically.
Once youâre really following the structure of a workout closely, overtime, youâll start to see gains and benefits that make it clear why doing things like reducing a power target by a few percent (like in your example), doesnât have nearly as significant of an impact when youâre meeting overarching goals.
Iâd be super happy to meet or DM and cover some key examples for you in detail, and to provide some more outside workout tips to help you really nail those workouts. Let me know!
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This. ^
I personally increased ftp about 6-8% per year for 3 years then basically plateaued. Volume and relatively constant around 8-10hpw. My ftp was about 20% higher than my âjust on the bikeâ ftp coming from a fit background in other sports.
Your goal was just not realistic. TR seems to be working well for you with a large gain. You may consider revising your expectations or taking a different perspective as others have stated. Keep up the good work and go out and do some fun rides outside!
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Spend more time at higher progression levels before updating FTP
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I would also suggest looking at improvements in fitness other than your âFTPâ.
If I assume that your FTP has always and only been set by the Ramp Test in all the above results, I would hazard a guess that there may be other improvements hidden in there. You may be an over-tester on the Ramp Test and actually now be riding at a more âaccurateâ number.
Or to put it another way, has your TTE at FTP changed/increased at all?
I donât think thereâs anything wrong with 4w/kg as a goal as Chad says above, but itâs easy to see the rapid response of some athletes and think thatâs a fair expectation.
As above, Iâve never had an FTP increase beyond a few percentage points since I started with Power. 15% is pretty good, your real world increase may be more, or you may have had an increase in FTP and an improved ability to ride at FTP.
Ultimately you have to have faith in the system and plan you use. It doesnât sound at all like youâve maxed out/are wasting your time on TR. However if thereâs something out there that motivates you more to follow the plan etc then thatâs a major consideration.
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Ftp is only part of the equation. I might have the same ftp over a year but my sustained power is better at a lower hr as an example.
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I know mid-40s is a busy time in life, Iâm right there with you. Kids, family, workâŚit all demands the majority of our time. And when time is limited that 6-7 hours a week is impressive. But⌠could it be that 7 hours a week just isnât enough volume to get the gains youâd like to see?
As many have said you have had a solid improvement, is it that the work put in matches the gains?
And then thereâs the age factor. At our age I kinda feel like we are holding on and trying to stop the slide rather than get the gains we would see in our youth.
I see two red flags here: you have a very concrete goal, 4 W/kg, which at 84 kg is a lot, and you are expecting to go up 1 W/kg within a very short period of time, a year or a year-and-a-half. You also seem to assume that training outdoors âwould have been more productive.â IMHO you are setting yourself the wrong goals and expecting too much, too soon. This is very, very dangerous, getting better at endurance sports means playing a long game, thinks years. And it depends on your age.
Both of your goals, 4 W/kg and 336 W (= 4 W/kg at your current weight) are well above average, especially your absolute power goal, so you should not expect to automatically get there, especially not within a year. Some people are struggling for years and might never get there. (Not everyone is above average âŚ) Age is another big factor, in your 40s you are not recovering and adapting as well as when you were in your 20s. For context, I started structured training in
Importantly, not all fitness is captured by your FTP. We frequently use FTP and W/kg, because these are fitness metrics that are easy to grasp and relatively easy to measure. Unfortunately, other metrics are harder to capture and track. So you might be missing ways in which you have gotten fitter, because you arenât looking.
Moreover, independently of whether you use TRâs training plans, FasCatâs training plans or find yourself a coach, structured training is very different from unstructured riding. And you might need to reduce the number of unstructured rides to make sure it doesnât interfere with your training. Structured training for endurance athletes is balancing recovery and fatigue with intensity and volume. What you describe here sounds as if you are doing too much:
That is another red flag: it means the workout is too hard for you to handle. The reasons for that could be manifold, e. g. intensity, too much training fatigue (i. e. too little recovery) and inadequate fueling come to mind. Instead, you should choose workouts that you can complete without modification.
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Hey mate, I was in a similar boat chasing 4W/kg and spent a long time around 3.5w/kg. I finally reached 4w/kg and am currently at 4.18w/kg. I didnât gain power(not a significant amount anyhow) I lost weight.
Theres one thing that seems a bit taboo to talk about here in the w/kg calculation and that is the weight. For reference sake I have a 4.18w/kg ftp with an FTP of 218.
At 84kg. Unless youâre a pretty big frame, you probably have room to shift your weight. If you lost 16kg and got down to 68kg, you would be 4w/kg.
I donât know your body composition, but Iâd recommend a dexa scan so you have some insight. I always thought I was relatively lean at 63kg but turns out my body fat % was actually 23%/14kg of fat(Iâm short with a small frame) I knew I could get that down to 10% without any consequences.
Obviously youâve got to be careful losing weight that you donât lose muscle, run a modest calorie deficit, eat plenty of protein and lift weights regularly.
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Nothing to add to the debate other than this is an awesome reply from TR/Ivy 
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I had the same type of challenge where I was struggling to balance life with training and being able to lose weight (4kg in my case) whilst training effectively. Calorie defecit always hits me hard when I try to do SS or above intensity.
So I hired a nutritionist to sketch out how I can run a calorie deficit whilst training and not losing power or muscle. I thought I had a good grasp on nutrition and healthy eating, turned out I did and was 85% of the way there but the 15% that he tweaked was my blocker.
Iâd recommend the experience
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It might have been said already, but I didnât see any references to your height. If youâre maxing out your power capabilities then the best way is shed kgâs, hello higher W/KG. If you continue to workout as the kgâs drop youâll be able to assess if the power is the same or starting to drop as well. Finding the crux of weight/power is a worthy pursuit, and youâll probably find that youâll smash the times on whatever climbs or TTs youâve been chasing.
Above and beyond the call of duty.
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Ivy, Thank you for responding. I agree there are lots of really good questions in here and Iâm finding them all a little overwhelming honestly. I am new to this forum and amazed by all the positive responses compared to the Reddit forums I usually lurk. I would super appreciate any advice you can provide on how to make the most out of my outside work outs. Its quite a generous offer of you to make and I will message you as soon as I figure out how to DM.
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Go to Ivyâs post click on user name
Click The Message button
Good luck
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Kudos to you Ivy (& TR) - above and beyond!
Also got me thinking this kind of interaction could be a really cool recurring segment for the podcast. Invite a user whoâs data says they could be making positive impactful changes to how they are interacting with their plans/workouts etc. and discuss what they could do better. Could be a cool way of highlighting best practices and shutting down common errors.
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Thatâs going to sell out faster than Springsteen concert tickets in New Jersey.
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