I do think fatigue is a big part of the problem here. When I push the ride to Friday it is much more doable. I will consider my next plan. I also am ok with the idea of making the VO2max workouts a bit easier. Threshold is definitely the weak link here so I need to make sure those are as good as I can make them.
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Yes, that’s my experience if I don’t get enough sleep over a long period, although I’m doing three hard workouts per week: I’d often crush the Monday morning workout, feel strong on Wednesday and fail on Friday. My FTP was not too high, I know from experience whether my FTP is set correctly or not.
In my experience, sleep is the critical factor.
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Hey @plasko 
Welcome to TR!
I took a look at your training plan, and I noticed you recently started weight training. If you are new to both structured interval training and strength training, the combination of the two may require an adaptation period, so this could be a cause of fatigue.
I did, however, notice that the workout you marked as “Struggle due to Intensity” was right after a big week of training in comparison to past weeks (7 hours vs. an average of 4 hours), so that may have had something to do with it.
Adaptive Training did lower the Workout Levels of the following Threshold workouts, which were marked as “Hard,” so this tells me AT was able to adjust things for you. This is why it’s important to accept the recommended adaptations, even if it means having the Threshold workouts easier, especially if you’re feeling tired.
The ideal scenario is to complete every workout with quality, so if you need to push the workout to a Friday, take the day off, or choose a Workout Alternate, then by all means. You have been doing the right thing, and that is listening to your body. You know yourself best!
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+1. This is what I have been trying to express in my previous posts. In this particular case, a one hour race (“threshold”), you are running hard the whole way. You are under control but never comfortable and it hurts. You are holding on and don’t know if you can keep going but find a way. You are right on the red line a long time.
But you need to train for that. To hold that level of discomfort for an hour is not easy and if being honest I think many give in too soon.
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Agreed.
That’s also what Justin Rossi said in TR’s The Chase video about his 40k TT race, “pain and hurt by minute 10”. Definitely not a RPE 6–7 effort. And I reckon this Rossi guy is pretty good at riding close to FTP for prolonged periods. 
Yup.
It is as much physical as it is mental. When I have a polarized block, I can definitely tell that it ups my mental game.
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I had been doing some weight training though somewhat inconsistently. I have decided for the rest of this training plan, to finish it out as written except moving the vo2max earlier one day to give me an extra day of rest for that threshold workout to improve the quality. I’ve also cut the weights out for now, and that seems to help. I completed my last Threshold workout and it felt manageably hard by the end, if not moderate.
Recovery continues to be a struggle,
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I’m still trying to wrap my head around people agreeing that a 10 minute interval at threshold should have a 9-10 RPE and make you feel like quitting.
Everyone has their own RPE scale but for me personally it is not a “9-10 RPE” at 10 minutes (I tend to think of that as anaerobic work or that feeling you get at the end of an all-out 5 min test). I don’t have an RPE number in mind, but for me, it’s more a feeling. After 10 minutes you shouldn’t feel like quitting (maybe thinking about it) but you are questioning how the heck you are going to make it.
Everyone has a different pain threshold and what they are willing to put themselves through. Some will ride the fine line between max effort and blowing up while others will back off as soon as they start to feel discomfort. I want to think elite athletes ride that line a lot closer than us mortals.
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I agree 100%.
I’m not saying holding Threshold power is easy, but otoh, if you’re about to quit at 10 minutes, I don’t see how you can possibly say your FTP is even close to your hour power.
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I wonder what is going on sometimes. When I’m struggling with these threshold workouts my HR doesnt always seem too bad, its just that I can’t hold the power for the entire interval, usually the last or second to last long one. Makes me think maybe there is a muscular endurance issue?
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Are you doing them in erg mode?
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yes
Maybe try doing them not in erg mode. It can make quite a difference to some people.
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At least the purpose of my response was to say that blanket statements like “10 minutes at FTP should feel like RPE 6–7, otherwise your FTP is set too high” are not correct. Personally, 4 x 10 minutes at FTP are not an RPE of 9–10, but I don’t think 6–7 is correct either.
How I feel really depends on the type of training I did. If I have completed a polarized block, it will feel easier than if I did a sweet spot block.
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Just want to second this. I’m one of those people.
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Maybe it’s because I don’t use erg mode that often, but anything more than recovery level feels miserable to me using erg mode.
How warmed up you are can be a huge factor, too. Depending on how warmed up I am before threshold workouts, I find they can be very difficult to start with, then the RPE goes down a few notches once I’m warmed up and settled in. The RPE can also go up or down over the course of the interval as the body and brain both deal with the various stressors.
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Total interval length is also a factor: on bad days my RPE after 2–3 minutes of a 20-minute threshold interval is often higher than if this were a 10-minute interval. And the mere prospect of doing another one
might seem daunting.
Conversely, on good days finishing one interval speeds up my flywheel.
Can you call this an example of a nocebo and placebo effect?
I’ll give that a try. I’ve ONLY done trainer workouts in ERG mode. I have struggled on road rides to hold my power steady so not doing ERG mode will probably help me get a hold on this.
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