I recently had the rather unpleasant experience of going into more or less a breathing panic during VO2 workout San Joaquin. This work out is 50/50s @130%/40%.
I had to drop the intensity for the 2nd set, and still by the end of that set (2/3) I was in such a breathing panic I had to quit the ride for safety as much as anything else. It’s interesting as my HR was only going up to c165-8 at the end of each set vs a 6 week high of 178 (observed when doing 2 min @120% in Emerald -3), but my breathing flipped out - short panicky breaths I just could seem to et a hold of.
Some research online highlighted the CO2 overload and accompanying symptoms, exactly describing what I experienced, and ‘the internet’ seems to think that at 47, using a % of FTP to set VO2 intensity is likely to lead to too high of an intensity in workouts. Google AI response to my age and workout structure/130% intensity was basically ‘are you mad, this is sure to cause issues’.
I wonder if there is any guidance here on general adaptations a dinosaur like me might make to suggested vo2 intensity?
Hey, according to research and common knowledge, Vo2 decreases with age, and training this component is more difficult. However, this knowledge should not be equated with the statement that “using a % of FTP to set VO2 intensity is likely to lead to too high of an intensity in workouts”. Vo2 max and % of FTP may or may not be related. They are certainly related to a certain level and at a certain average rate. However, as has been said many times in the Empirical Cycling podcast, doing Vo2 intervals specifically related to % of FTP is inherently wrong. My advice - instead, do a test - 5 or 6 min all out (pace evenly). You will find out your max aerobic power. Start intervals at 90% of that for 5 min. However, if you are anaerobically dominant, then even 130 or 140% may not be suitable for you for certain intervals. I am 50 yo, for example, with on/off type intervals, I never reach true Vo2 state. I should be doing a lot of sets to accumulate the desired amount of time, and at some point, my legs just get tired. So I have to do 4-8 min intervals, which are 110%-120% of FTP. My max aerobic power is 123-125 % of my FTP. In short, doing VO2 intervals based on just % of FTP can be misleading and not productive. This has been discussed a lot here on the forum.
just to illustrate my point: the workout was San Joaquin+5 and and now compare power (should have been 130 but I did 135% in the last interval) and HR response (my max hr is 189). I didn’t even reach threshold (176). The second workout was 4x 6M blocks 30/15, each comprising: 8x(30S @ 130-160% FTP/15S @ 30-40% FTP). Now look at HR response - same story. So you have to find Vo2 workouts that suit your physiology and are productive.
Thanks Everman, appreciate the well thought out response.
5/6 min all out test sounds like a delight for the soul, I shall look fwd to that (begins searching for excuses to procrastinate).
I am 54 and I hav seen my VO2max tank over the last 3to 4 years looking options
In the words of the coach that cannot be named (Coach C) you have two options to improve your performance in zone lift it from above or raise up from below. Doing long intervals above threshold but below VO2max just sucks and you have the issue as previously mentioned to light and you get muscle fatigue first to close and you won’t complete the internals (I have this issue) the example is over unders (a pet hate but) is very effective for VO2max. My preferred way is the Spanish needle type workout short shorts repeat. I am prone to brag and say I have no limit as to how many I can do, but there is again muscle fatigue which is the limit. The other issue is repeat ability in the training calendar, weekly during base phase less often during the build and specialty stages. I have heard mentioned another out lying idea that swimming is a good way to lift VO2max
I only made it about 1/3 through my last Vo2 workout before I could tell I was going to fail. Dialed it back to 95% intensity using the in-app slider and was able to complete it, which is better in my eyes than bailing early, but probably could have done a point or two more (96-97). I’ve found my lungs respond really well to these types of workouts. Always keep cadence very high for these, 100-105 or higher if I can stay stable in the saddle.
I had something similar to that a few weeks post Covid. I just kept training and then eventually I got back to normal. I think a big part of it was Psychological. I knew my Max HR was also much higher aswell but I was also panic breathing like you. I just kept at it because I knew my Max HR was not even close to being reached. After a couple weeks my body adapted. Now I don’t seem to have a problem with them. But I will tell you that when I start doing VO2 in the training plan the first couple weeks are always tough. It seems like I need a few weeks to adapt. I am also 10 years older than you.
My kids, 16 & 18, are very good swimmers in my country..so I kinda can speak about this.. but.. VO₂max is partly central — heart, blood volume, oxygen transport — so aerobic training in another sport can produce some transfer. But cycling VO₂max also depends on cycling-specific peripheral adaptations: the muscles involved, local oxygen extraction, mitochondrial adaptations, and the ability to sustain very high cardiac output while producing cycling power. So you might increase your Vo2 max (central adaptations), but it will not correspond to your cycling performance. The mentioned push and pull method is known from Tim Cusick, CTS coaching philosophy and is applicable to FTP development (extensive and intensive interval durations). The same can be true for VO2 intervals as well. My view on this is that you can do different types of Vo2 intervals year-round and tailor them to the current phase of your training - let’s say yo are doing longer Vo2 intervals during general periodization and preparation for season and then later, during the season or before some races if needed you can do those Vo2 types intervals which are most beneficial considering the type of events you are doing. There are many possibilities in there.
seems to think that at 47, using a % of FTP to set VO2 intensity is likely to lead to too high of an intensity in workouts. Google AI response to my age and workout structure/130% intensity was basically ‘are you mad, this is sure to cause issues’.
