What’s your goal?
Just to become an overall faster cycling.
Increase ftp to enjoy fast group rides more.
I’d have you do a VO2 max type workout in addition to your zone 2 time. I think you’d see the best growth in aerobic capacity that way, rather than sweet spot or threshold plus all that zone 2. Lots of ways you could structure those, and you could experiment with short/shorts (30/30 or 40/20) or longer 3-5 min intervals and see how you feel/progress.
Some would call this “polarized” training. I’d just tell you that it’s the age old adage of keeping easy days easy and making your hard days really hard. It’s not new theory, it’s just been rebranded by one prominent guy.
2 Likes
Zone 2 sessions are the bread and butter workout for any endurance sport. In my opinion the next best thing to getting 20 h of it per week is getting as much as you can sustainably fit into your day. For me that means workouts of 1-2 h most weekdays (in the form of the free ride 60/90/120… TR workouts), 1-2 commutes of 1-1.5 h (each way) at least once a week and at least one outdoor ride of 3-5 h on the weekend. Only 1 to max. 2 interval sessions per week for me. No recipe for quick gainz but consistency and long term improvement. LSD does improve FTP by the way, people just have to realize that getting fast takes years of really consistent training and not a few weeks of killing yourself with intervals.
There is only so much progression possible in TSS/hours/intensity, so I feel like excessively focusing on it will only make me feel bad about my limited time. Plus, pros don’t train 100 hours per week after a couple of years but seem to reach 15-25 h at some point. They still improve so it must be something other than merely increasing volume over time.
Progression in terms of intensity pretty much comes as a byproduct of doing the work every day while not fearing the next week of even harder and longer intervals than the week before.
3 Likes
Training the same amount at a higher FTP (simple example) is still progression. My hours and TSS aren’t much different this year, but I’m training 15+ W higher on every interval. Eventually I’ll top out, but for most people, you can train the same way and progress for years before you need to really change stimulus. I’d bet most people could achieve 4W/kg on a MV SST plan from trainer road with enough compliance and consistency over time.
In fact, I’d argue it could be detrimental to try every new fangled plan that someone throws out every year.
Zone 2 is the bread and butter, but it’s not the only way to be fast… to a point. I agree that there is a cap for what SST style training can achieve, largely a burnout based one. But most people hit a weekly life time cap before they reach burnout.
3 Likes
this is a great comment. Aerobic work can be increased up towards tempo (76-90% FTP), but just be careful that you don’t overdo it. I’ve ridden too much tempo in early season and cracked hard.
keep doing those aerobic zone 2 rides whenever you can, and back to back ones on the weekend (or if you work on the weekend, 2x during the week) and you’ll see massive benefits.
good luck! let us know how it continues to improve!
Brendan
2 Likes
So why even prescribe high Z2 and risk it. It’s not like the zone lines are distinct. You don’t go 1w into Z3 and crack, or 1w below Z3 and are ok. Most of us can’t accurately calculate our ftp down to the correct watt anyways. So why even risk it?
And the previous post was talking about riding at a higher wattage because of an ftp increase. They were still middle of Z2.
I disagree with this…at least anecdotally.
I got back nearly all of my fitness losses from my peak of last season (ie…what I lost in the offseason), by going through TB 1, 2, and 3. I lost 32 watts in the offseason, and got 26 back through that progression. And it was relatively easy training.
There’s a lot of detail left out here:
What volume plan?
What did you do to get back that last 20% of your loss that TB didn’t get back?
What is 26W relative to your FTP?
What’s your training history? Age? Etc.
I am absolutely not disputing that Traditional Base done at proper volume is good and will result in FTP gains (quite the opposite). I’m frankly not even sure what point you’re disputing…
1 Like
High zone 2 bleeding into zone 3 can be very beneficial in appropriate doses during an easier base phase, as it will emphasize muscular endurance a bit more than 65% would. The problem is when those gray zone rides become the bulk of your “easy” riding. You don’t recover from them as easily as long zone 2 or shorter sweet spot rides.
You go out and do 4 hours prescribed at 65% but instead hit 75 or 80% NP, you’re going to feel that difference distinctly. You can do that a couple of times in base and reap benefits if you allow enough recovery. Most people ride tempo too much too frequently without allowing for adequate recovery because the perception is “tempo is easy.”
3 Likes
I think it was this comment:
That comment left me a little confused.
My assumption is you were really commenting on the original poster saying “have been able to adapt to riding the 2hr plus endurance rides 3-4 times a week.”
As I mentioned, that is only found in week 3 of Trad Base 1 mid-volume (TB-1 MV). When you progress to TB-2 MV, the long Sunday aerobic ride starts at 2.25 hours and increases to 2.75 hours (an extra 15 minutes each week). And in TB-3 MV, the long Sunday aerobic ride starts at 3 hours and increases to 3.5 hours. In addition each phase of TB increases intensity from:
- all aerobic endurance in TB-1
- tempo + aerobic endurance in TB-2
- tempo + sweet spot + aerobic in TB-3
During loading weeks the time commitment starts at 7 hours/week and progresses to 10.25 hours/week. I’ve found it to be a really nice plan if you are willing to commit to the time required.
my error on posting: I must have misread the initial thread; i was trying to reply to one specific comment and it looks like I just added mine to the end of the thread.
that said, i’d risk it because there’s more benefit but you just don’t want to totally overdo it like I did; i got aerobically fit and upped the wattage and over time it was too much fatigue, but I didn’t notice it at the time being in the trees and not looking big picture.
correct, there is no line in the sand drawn, even when we’re talking aerobic vs anaerobic systems, totally agree.
thanks
2 Likes
That comment was specific to that individual, and not meant to be taken as a general comment about TB MV.
1 Like
Yes, you give good advice and I like reading what you post 
But you know how it is on forums… so easy to get confused when reading comments. Anyways just wanted to explain that I too was initially left with the wrong impression, was going to reply and then realized your comment was specific to original poster.
2 Likes
It’s all good!
2 Likes
Hey guys. Sorry to hijack. Still somehow related to the question: Im back again on Sweet Spot Base 1 Low Volume. Would there be any benefit of supplementing the plan with endurance z2 (60-65% ftp) rides? If so, for how long? (3Omin, 1hr, 1.5hr, 2hrs?) Would doing them immediately after each workout be alright? Or would adding them on days in between the 3 main workouts be better?
1 Like
Yes, tons of benefit as long as you can handle the stress. I think the coaches would say add it after the SSB workouts and keep the rest days as rest, for now. Start with only 30min, then progress to longer as you go (keep it progressive).
You’ll have to go by feel and knowledge of yourself when determining total volume. Are you coming from no training recently? Or did you drop back to base after a build phase? To start you should probably keep total volume similar to what you were doing last week, and increase as able. Don’t forget to rest (do as I say, no as I do).
I’ll give it a go! 1-1.5 hrs are definitely tolerable. I’ll work to keep that up and build up from there. Just finished SSB 1&2 recently but restarted again since all my planned events are cancelled + i think there’s the benefit of working for a bigger base. Thanks man! 
1 Like
Keep those extra base mile rides at truly a low intensity. If you go out and start attacking Strava segments or doing more intervals you’ll probably cook yourself.
If you have more time, have you considered doing mid volume instead of low volume?