Additional answer to Struggle survey : Recovery valley(s) were too short [Feature Request]

If the extra question was more personal and someone would get upset that TR is too intrusive, sure. But if the extra data is just extra work to answer…

This is why it should be a menu after to get finer grained answers and maybe a menu thats easier to dismiss. You got the rough data, if you don’t provide the extra detail nothing is lost but if you do want to give extra detail there is more data to figure out how to adapt.

How do you adapt a workout that is marked as too intensive? Make recovery valley longer, make intervals have a lower target, make the intervals shorter? What if people could provide more data to make it easier to judge? Though looking at HR data could help. If you look at HR during rest (slope of HR really) it should look different from rest too short vs not too short. If slope is still negative vs leveling out or probably the better measure is how long its been since the slope was <-x (don’t have enough data to guess what x should be) as I’m guessing HR levels out before you’re really recovered and the tail end of recovery is more sensitive to other things that impact HR.

It’s odd to me that we’re not asked to provide details about intensity and many comments here are that doing so would be too much details. Yet for the rest , there are 6 intertwined choices and that’s ok !?! .

Being stressed messes up my sleep; too much training fatigue can do that too. Both can easily lead to getting a cold/being sick. @Nate_Pearson has often said on the podcast that being overtrained or underfueled can easily be detected by your partner through one’s mood.

Many who have trained for a while could have something to say about which part of a workout intensity we struggled with. Really I would like to tell AT which aspect of Intensity I struggled with
(% of FTP, peak duration, rest floats duration ) so next adaptation’s workouts are doable.

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For me, at least, it’s because they are all intertwined. I would have no idea how to answer.
-If the %FTP was lower, then I could do longer peak duration and shorter rests
-If the peak duration was shorter, then I could do higher %FTP and shorter rests
-If the rests were shorter, then I would need lower %FTP and/or peak duration

I could keep mixing them and coming up with different scenarios, but they all come down to failing because of “Intensity”. Did I fail because the %FTP was too high or because the interval was too long or because the rest was too short? I have no idea because it’s all the same.


Yeah this is literally a waste of time.

If you do 5x5@105% with 5min rest, but struggled - you might not struggle with 5x5@105% with 6min rest. But how do you know you wouldn’t have also been fine with 5x5@104% with 5min rest, or 5x6@103% with 5min, or 4*7@105%. The point is - the intensity was too much for you.

What does voting “intensity” do? gives you a less intense workout next time - often this is with more rest, but sometimes slightly lower power.

Your body isn’t that exact. Look at problems through squinted eyes and they all make much more sense.


you might not be able to pinpoint the cause/slice it apart but you just wrote that you know you need 6 instead of 5 min after that interval. To me that 's a valid struggle cause to feed into AT: " I didn’t have enough time to recover". That’s much more valuable to say than it was a sickness but not an injury.

I can easily see it from my HR. Sometimes I haven’t had enough time to recover before the next interval start. Sometimes the valleys are too long. I call it repeatability and has been my initial request. I dont care how it gets labeled in the end.

Lol, I got a struggle survey on last nights SS session despite exceeding all the targets. Maybe it was my low stomping cadence that triggered it. I think we need to add 'Watching the European Track Champs" to the survey :crazy_face: I put the resistance up and stomped on the pedals so I could hear it ok :crazy_face: :crazy_face:

I think in your case, you could look at the levels of the workout alternates that have the same ftp % and same duration but different recovery times. Those should be different workout levels.

I had a situation where all my VO2 workouts had short work intervals, 30/15s, 30/30s, 40/20s, etc. And then suddenly it put in a workout with 90s work intervals that absolutely crushed me. I wonder if AT has a window to the zone subtype.

I did wonder about how struggle survey interprets some intensity responses. I’ve only once had it, and it was on a SS session but with big, short (~5sec) power spikes. The SS was fine, but the spikes were pretty much my at my sprint limit (I accelerate like a heavily sedated slug).

Given that there had been no prior peak efforts in the plan, and as far as I can tell no attempt to bench mark neuromuscular power, I did wonder if my response of intensity struggle would highlight the correct difficulty - that I’d be barely capable of hitting the requested powers fresh.