Like you I’m also intrigued by Josh’s report on wind tunnel testing of Discus 45|40 and GP5K in 32c. After seeing your post I configured the WG44s with DT240 hubs and price was around $1500 and around 1480g. Both of those look good. I don’t know anything about LightBicycle. The Discus 45|40 specs on BikeTiresDirect are 1665g and $2319, so just under a half pound heavier for the set. Not that I should throw more money at wheels, but my other wheels are DT240. So the Discus 45|40 hubs, price, and weight are holding me back from that day I come into a little extra money.
I have exactly the wheels you configured (WG44 on 240s) on the way from LB, I’ll report real weights and impressions when they arrive.
In general I’ve had great luck with rims from both LB and BTLOS. I usually build my own wheels, and have built and ridden several, including some MTB and gravel wheels that I’ve beaten the absolute hell out of with no issues. That said, they are definitely not doing the actual wind tunnel design and testing work 3T/Vroomen are, and the “eyeball wind tunnel” design is notoriously unreliable, so I’ll probably never know how they stack up the the genuine Discus article in terms of aero performance.
I will say that my impression is that genuinely wide tires/rims are the way to go if you want aero performance on wider rubber.
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Found this for 418 - should help https://company.3t.bike/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/RaceMax-Italia-Integrale-Frame-specifications.pdf
A bit late to the party here, but here goes,
I now own and race a 3T RaceMax Italia. I previously owned and raced a RaceMax 415. I race UCI Gravel and the odd Gran Fondo on the road.
I use the Italia with Zipp 303 S as road wheels paired with 30 or 32 mm Conti GP5000.
For gravel I use the 40/45-wheels with Chris King Hubs. I have raced mostly with Maxxis Rambler 38mm and Conti Terra Speed 40 mm. For the Worlds in Italy in 2023 i used the 415-frame with Terra Speed 40 mm. Worked well, but kinda harsh. I use a Tubolight insert in the rear.
This season I raced a few gravel races with the Italia 418. I mainly used the Conti Terra Speed 40 mm, but these measure out to about 39 mm on the 3T rims. I hoped to use the Specialized Pathfinder S-Works 42 mm for some races, but found them a tad too big in the rear. They measure out to 45-46 mm. No rubbing, but only 1 mm of clearance to the top of the seat tube cutout.
Zipp XPLR tires in 40 mm fit fine - 2-3 mm of clearance, but they are quite heavy and slow.
Looking for tires that measure 43-44 mm on the 3T rims, but more supple and light than the Zipp XPLR. Will try Maxxis Rambler 40 mm in the 120 tpi-version, Maxxis Reaver and perhaps Pathfinder 38 mm in the rear and 42 mm up front.
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How is the Italia in road bike mode? I have only test ridden the first-gen Exploro with knobby tires. But I am curious whether something like the RaceMax would be a good replacement for my Strada a few years down the line.
I use an Exploro Racemax 418 as my winter road bike and for travel (external cables so easy to disassemble). It’s great in this role IME. Geometry is more in line with current road than gravel bikes, it has stealth fender mounts and of course can clear up to ~44mm tires, or 40s with fenders. TBH at this point this bike is more in line with current all-road options than the really fat tired gravel bikes.
I wish 3T would release an Asia-made version of the Racemax Italia, similar shapes but way more tire clearance. But the $6100 price for a frame set is too rich for my blood.
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I ran 45 Tufo Thunderos at Big Sugar last year. Racemax Italia w/ SRAM wide cranks / 1x. It’s was a dry course, had no issues, ran great! If it was muddy, might have been a different story…
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Yeah, I am hoping that by the time I am due for a new dropbar bike, prices will have dropped a little. When I bought my custom first-gen Strava, prices for the frame were in line or lower than what you pay for the frames of the Specializeds and BMCs of the world.
What do these numbers (415 and 418) refer to?
The first generation RaceMax had 415 mm chainstays. Later editions and Italia-versions have 418 mm chainstays and therefore a couple of mm extra tire clearance.
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I have the an original 415 - 40mm tyres on 700c wheels are pushing it really.
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I have the 418 running 2x and I’ve crammed 47mm (measured) tires in there. Not a lot of extra mud clearance though. But it’ll clear 42mm slicks (Pirelli 40mm TLRs on WG44 rims) with fenders no problem, and that’s been a great winter setup for mixed road and light gravel.
It remains a shame that UDH is only available on the Italian frames, as the FD is tire limiter and 1x13 would be a nice option. Given the spy shots of Shimano XTR floating around maybe Shimano will provide some more non-UDH 1x options soon.
I had a 415 RaceMax for gravel and road racing. It was a super sharp and fun bike. Loved racing it in crits and a couple of gravel races. I only had it for maybe 6 months. 38s were pushing it in the rear.
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So you sold it after 6 months? What do you have now? 3T made versions with more tire clearance under various names. Did they tempt you?
I was trying to find the one bike to do it all in 2023. I sold my cx bike which was serving as my gravel rig and at the time my crit bike since I dented my allez sprint. Wasn’t sure what to do, money was a lil tight so I found a really good deal on the RaceMax. I was pretty excited at first. After my first gravel race with it , I knew tire clearance would be an issue for events that aren’t smooth. I went back and forth on 650b. I knew after that race I was going to get rid of it.
In the fall, a college kid was selling a Giant Revolt Advanced 2 for $1,300 down in Boulder. Snagged that real quick. It’s from 2020/2021, but is honestly pretty fun and fits the tires I want (for now). If I ever upgrade, I’ll get the new Revolt or a Seigla. I also put together a Ventum NS1 that same fall with a clearance frame and force axs a friend sold me to super cheap. I built that bike and the revolt for nearly the same price I sold the RaceMax for. I just regret selling my carbon wheels with it.
I was never tempted with the new 3Ts.
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