Well - it all depends on what is your goal. I am technically over 4w/kg in age of 43 from ramp test and that scales very well TR training plans. For me FTP is just a number to scale training.
Two years ago I got the same numbers from 20 minutes test, unfortunately last season I didn’t do outdoor test and all my longer TT races got mixed with aero extensions on road bike + hot weather so I cannot claim what I can hold outside for 40 minutes.
Anyway - comparing FTP to friends is the highway to hell… Just do not do it - you will ruin your motivation and everything
I don’t think you have to “prove” it thrown actual test or ride but I think you should know the feeling when you are at or near that number and be able to have an honest personal assessment on whether or not you would be able to hold the “ftp” for around 40 minutes. I find when I base my training on a number that feels like I could hold for 40+ minutes then everything falls into place and I don’t end up overreaching and burned out🤷🏼♂️
I love that, and it’s very true. it’s all about personal bests.
That seems like it should be 5 w/Kg. 4 w/Kg is still in Cat 2/3 category, and I can’t believe there’s not many many Cat 3s here… I’m dead in the middle of the bell curve on intervals.icu for my age group.
One of the issues with 40 minutes I am having is to find a course where to do it (I have strong preference on safety over anything else). From races it looks like it is not completely off (I can stay on top SST margin for long time thanks to TR plans) - and honestly - my work allows for perfect regeneration since I work as software engineer - so sitting majority of the day…
Everybody has different conditions and needs for recovery which need to be considered.
I wonder if weight has something to do with it. I was talking with a coach who also races a lot, he thinks there’s a big divide between cat 3 and cat 2 when it comes to weight, somewhere on the order of 5 kg between the average cat 3 cyclist and cat 2 cyclist. Then again he also said he’s never seen a cat 1 cyclist over 90kg, but there are pros in Denmark and Belgium that weigh as much as me
We do not have Cats here so cannot really compare - though I know couple folks around 90kg (some of them my age) who have no issue to beat me on rolling courses - it is not only matter of FTP but they are very tough, better technically skilled and they have great ability to sustain hard punches which are killer for me (I am trying to fix that this season) - also equipment probably makes a bit of difference.
On steep climbs - the lower weight apparently makes a huge difference - it looks like that same w/kg do not directly cause same VAM for very different weights.
Yes, I fully agree with you. When it comes to actual racing, tactics and skill are just as important as fitness. I’m working on this as well, decided to join a drop ride in my area that I’ve avoided. The only issue is that they have a house rule of no attacking while descending, as it’s not a closed course and people can get hurt. Fair enough, but that hamstrings me a bit since my weight could help a lot in those attacks :P.
I have power data for my rides since the end of 2009 and been riding since 2001 so… Though didn’t really do much structured workouts. Currently at 174 ftp from the ramp test and my previous maximum threshold power in xert was 238
Watts/kg definitely is not the end all be all when it comes to winning races. If, however, you are looking to improve yourself and your own individual performance then it is worth examining. I do think that a lot of people fall short on maximizing the kg portion of the equation. Most people are not at super low body fat levels and could stand to shed a few kgs of bf. Whether or not it is worth it to you from a lifestyle decision or not is up to the individual. There is no guarantee it will magically make you faster than someone else with a lower w/kg but it will most likely make you a faster/better version of yourself
This is a good point. Probably a fair few, to be honest. Again, this is why I think hitting 4 w/kg at middle age is probably a genetic thing. And not just with endurance fitness either, it could also be someone who is genetically predisposed to recover well.
This is N=1 but my brother, for example, can fall asleep at the drop of a hat and stay asleep for 8-10 hours. On the other hand, I struggle to sleep 7 hours a night and usually wake up a couple times during the night. Guess who complains about soreness and fatigue more and who doesn’t adapt as well on the bike.
How tall are you and have you ever checked your body fat percentage? I have found through years of experience (I was a personal trainer throughout my 20’s) that people who say they can’t lose more weight tend to have a skewed perception of how lean they are. I know you say you are built like a tank but I’d be interested to see how lean they ~205lbs is
47 yo female here, I usually sit between 4.2-4.5 w/kg and that hasn’t changed much in the past 5 years. Lots of great examples of what is possible in this thread but also important to remember that the experience that comes with years of cycling is as valuable as FTP when it comes to racing. I mostly race masters category and endurance events these day but occasionally jump into a P12 race and watch the young 'uns burn matches and make mistakes, I may not have their kick but I can hang because I race smart
Random input but curious if anyone else has done 23andMe .
I have the genetic muscle composition That is common in power athletes. Being 37 years old I’m wondering if that would make any difference in maintaining 4+ watts per kilogram in my later years?
First, at 54 I know I’ll never hit 4 watts/kg. When I “race” against other guys my age in my club I flounder at climbing and crush them on fast flat terrain with a sprint at the end. I was always this kind of rider. At least I’m sort of good at something in cycling.
I’m sure these top percentages of ability are genetic. Here’s a little story. I knew a former pro cyclist who raced the giro and achieved some ok success. He retired from cycling and then didn’t ride for 10 years. He got fat. We are talking a 30 pound spare tire.
He decided to start racing again. He dusted off his old bike and within 6 months of starting to train he was going off the front solo in races and lapping the field. We are talking very competitive masters 1-2-3 fields. He had lost some weight but was still doing this with a spare tire. In six months he was like superman on a bike compared to mere mortals.
Did he have secret training methods left over from the Giro? No. He still had the superior genetics that got him to the pro peloton in the first place.
He quickly got tired of beating up local riders and gave up racing again.
I’m 181cm and had a body spec scan done before the pandemic at 94kg, that was my lightest. My BF% showed 21.5%, no doubt that is a lot compared to others. The issue is that this is AFTER a year of eating clean and running a slow calorie deficit; basically eating a ton of veggies and low energy density foods, but keeping protein up and fueling my rides.
During this time, my FTP went from 264 watts down to 240 watts and I lost almost all my anaerobic fitness; 30-30’s were inconceivable during this period. I realized I wasn’t enjoying my time on the bike, so I decided to eat clean but no longer cut calories. The result is that I’m back up to 98kg but my FTP went up to 295 watts and my repeatable anaerobic power came back.
That being said, I have a couple of excuses I’d like to submit:
I’m a big boned individual. My bone density z-score was 3.8 which is off the charts, great for durability but not great for w/kg.
I look like a gorilla. My shoulders are about 57cm across but my inseam is 72cm…short little legs furiously pedaling 150mm cranks. The result is I carry a ton of weight on my upper body but I’m great to draft behind!
This is the kind of story I avoid, it makes me so depressed . But seriously, kudos to that guy for being on a completely other level. I will enjoy being a mere mortal and being thankful for what I can do.
I have 4 kids and, unfortunately, it’s getting more difficult as the years go on. Puberty is kicking in for the older ones and the younger two (twins) are sick of being left out of the fun.
. But seriously, kudos to that guy for being on a completely other level. I will enjoy being a mere mortal and being thankful for what I can do.