I have a quick question about my sweet spot workouts. Over the past few weeks, I’ve attempted a 2×20-minute sweet spot session twice, and I failed both attempts. They were recommanded by trainerroad’s AI.It honestly felt a bit discouraging.
What confuses me is that, between those two failed workouts, I completed a 3×12-minute sweet spot session at 281 W (all intervals felt solidly “moderate”) and I also did a 2h15 Zone 2 ride at 231 W that felt easy. So I’m not sure why the 2×20 is giving me such a hard time.
Is this just a matter of needing more specific physical adaptation to longer intervals? Could it be mental fatigue or pacing? When I stop the failed workout, my legs don’t even feel totally empty, so I’m a bit puzzled about what’s going on.
Check out the Truchas series of workouts. That’s a good way to build up. They’re my favorite workouts. Also what exactly is causing you to want to stop the interval? Is your heart rate what you would expect it to be?
I like the Seneca Rocks progression when getting back into things… 3 x 15 min but a bump in intensity (75-80-85). When that is successful you can bump up to Spruce (longer reps @ 85%) or Tray Mountain (shorter reps to start but @ 90%).
I have been having a hard time mentally with long reps over 20 min. Not physically but I get bored… so I have been doing workouts like McGregor to help break it up.
Did you fail during the first interval or the second? Doing this indoors or outdoors? In ERG?
If indoors in ERG, try it out of ERG where you have the ability to float your power in the zone. This can sometimes help get you through it without that locked in feeling you have with ERG and makes it more akin to doing the intervals outdoors.
I started to fail during the first block. I was indoor on erg mode, @kevistraining I also calibrate my power meter. The data should be the same as when I rode outside. I didn’t had any HR monitor. I feel they make me loose my focus. It really feels like that I miss adaptation for longuer sweetspot intervale. I need more recevery between sets
I think the explanation would be that either you were tired and the legs were topped off with glycogen
OR
3x12 was within your TTE (time to exhaustion) but the 2x20 pushed you over the edge
OR
It was a combination of both.
You can progess it by doing 3x13, 3x15 and then 2x20. Per the Empirical Cycling podcast*, if you are getting to the last few minutes of these intervals and the legs start burning or RPE starts rising rapidly then you’ve hit your TTE and have probably done enough for that workout.
That was from an Episode with Rory on FTP/Sweetspot/TTE work.
Retry indoors without ERG mode and see how you do. If you ultimately cannot hold the prescribed power, then do what you can but finish the 20 minute intervals. That will give you a baseline to build off of. However you might find it easier with ERG off and end up doing well with an average power at or near the target.
just thinking out loud.
if taking a short pause - say 15-30 seconds - in the middle of the 20-min sweetspot allows him to complete the intervals, would that be an option?
This one. It’s only 20 minutes of sweetspot. If FTP is set at a good number and bailouts are needed you’re either ill or massively under-prepared for the workout and should just shut it down.
Absolutely nothing wrong with taking a 20s 30s or even a minute breather if it means completing the workout.
Nothing bad happens if you take a breather other than the ego gets bruised. However, next time you will be far more positive about completing the workout because you nearly did it last time.
Maybe, but if I was the coach of an athlete who was needing to take a breather during the first interval of a 2 × 20 sweetspot workout, I’d be asking them if everything was OK.
Completing a workout can be detrimental to long-term success.
You’ve posted what wattage you’ve ridden the workouts at, but not the percentage of FTP. It’s probably better to build duration at a lower percentage of the sweetspot range rather than pushing the upper limit, especially so if you’re using AIFTP rather than a proper test as the combination of an over estimated FTP plus sweetspot at the top of the range (incidently I find TR really bad for this) means you may well be attempting 2 x 20 at threshold, which is a more difficult workout than at the lower end of sweetspot.
In your position, I’d do a longer FTP/TTE test to get a handle on where you are at (the KM baseline test is good) and then start to build a progression at 88/90%, might feel a bit easy at first but you can progress it out reasonably quickly.
Do you mind sharing your calendar so we can have a look - we might be able to decern whether it’s a case of equipment, wrong workout or legs on the day….
Alternatively you could contact TR support directly instead…
Why not try 3x15 next time and see how that goes? The way you are doing it now the work is either too hard, too long or both. The other option is to lower power, but I think getting that time in zone is what you are after.
… but the OP nailed a 3 × 12 sweetspot workout OK, which makes me think it’s likely not FTP number-related. If you can do 3 × 12, a single 20 minute interval should be eminently do-able*, if done under broadly similar circumstances.
*I’m assuming the 3 × 12 and 2 × 20 were at similar wattage targets.
And, it’s also 100% ok to not be feeling it on one particular day and default to an endurance workout. Or lower the power and do those sweetspot intervals at whatever RPE feels right.
This is what pro athletes do, they autoregulate way better than amateurs. They know when to pull the plug. There is no such thing as a “failed” workout.
