now the good question which I’m not sure I have the answer is, would a more powerful brakes even being too powerful for a given tire traction make you less tired / fatigued? could it help you on long days by needing less force to provide the same braking power? that would be one advantage of having more powerful brakes which is often mentioned on more aggressive riding, but I’m not sure how much that translates to XC riding
Ha hit reply to soon without realizing it. You basically said what I was going to. Really curious on this, I switched from 4 piston to 2 piston and really haven’t noticed any loss of performance. But this will be first year racing XCM on the new brakes so maybe I’ll have some data to report back.
Better braking starts with good tires
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I’ve never been too particular about my brakes. Have run both Shimano and SRAM and never had issues with either (knock on wood).
But my Epic has the new style SRAM Stealth brakes and I really dig them. Not because they work any better, but I love how they mount tight and parallel to the bars and make a comfortable alternate/aero inboard hand position when rolling fast/tame sections. The size is perfect, almost feels like a grip to me. It’s a nice middle ground between normal hands on grips and grabbing the bar near the stem.
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Being over 200lbs and living in the Southern part of the SF Bay Area means long descents, and even with 180mm discs, the 2 pots were not up for the job. add on about 50g for caliper bodies and pads. Well worth the added weight, to be confidant that I’m not going to miss a turn that puts me 1,000 feet down hill faster than desired.
The key thing with 2 pots is that you have to get high end 2 pots. I’m around the same weight, and live in Squamish with some huge descents. The XTRs (180mm discs) are still excellent on the trails I take my xc bike on, and I never get any brake fade.
In contrast, the levels that came on my blur were almost unridable on that same terrain.
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Yep, XT 2 pots, finned pads and 180mm XT discs. I could get to the bottom, but not without some serious fade and pucker factor. My Scalpel came with 160s which was the first thing I swapped out, then the move to XTR 4 pots. I probably could have gotten away with XT 4 pots as that’s what I ended up putting on my hard tail.
Like others said above, I feel like the braking bottleneck in modern XC bike are the tires. When things get somewhat steep, I’m yet to find XC tires that can keep up with anything above 2 pot and/or 180mm discs
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In XCO I never have any issue with braking power, and I could agree that the bottle neck is the tire. But if you ride 800 meters down steep mountains without a break, more braking power is a good thing because you wont get tired from the braking. There’s been quite a few times my hands have been completely battered from braking down long XCM decent.
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I almost had to pull out of my first race on my new Blur back in 2019 because of arm pump with the Level TL’s that bike came specced with. It wasn’t an issue of ultimate power in the brake, but needing to pull so hard on the lever to get there. Went through a few bleeds, bedding etc, but it was like full crimping on a bouldering project. I had a bike with Guides, and one with Codes with similar “feel” that just doesn’t work for me. My SLX 2-pots on the XC bike that replaced the Levels are 10 years old and still going strong despite the wear in the levers putting them near retirement stage, and I don’t notice any brake fade until the pads are almost completely gone.
From riding a few quick laps on friends enduro bikes with Mavens it seems like SRAM has taken a massive step forward towards what I’ve liked about Shimano & TRP brakes. I’m still a little cautious about the DirectLink in the Motives promising more linear actuation, but willing to give them a shot.
If folks are looking for budget brakes, I have had fantastic luck the MT420’s from shimano. They are a 4 piston, non-servo wave. I argue they work great on XC bikes, as you can feel the edge of traction a bit more than the servo wave shimanos.
I was about to order the XTR race non-servo levers, to pair with a 4 piston caliper, bit wanted to test it cheap, so got the whole set for 140. I also really like the longer levers for fitting my sq labs inner bar ends.
I regularly am riding 1000’ descents, and am quite large. I run a 200mm rotor in the rear, 180 front and am really liking the setup.
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A die-hard Sram fan myself I was pleasantly surprised by two-pot Shimano brakes on a bike I demo’d. So much power! Would take some getting used to for me. I think a lot can come down to setup/pad/rotor and bedding in. I had nice G2’s with Centerline rotors set up with metallic pads that would stop silently on a dime. I wore through the pads this summer and the rotors were a few years old so I treated the bike to new pads and the HS2 rotors and it was awful. Could not get them to bed in without glazing. I’ve cleaned and sanded the rotors, now trying the Galfer Pro green pads in hope to get the bite back. If that doesn’t work I’ll either throw the old rotors on or think about an upgrade. Having tried the Mavens, the Motives sound like they could be awesome (and I like the new lever body angle) but I’m hesitant to try anything on its first iteration.
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Interesting setup, not sure I’ve seen a bike running larger rotor in the rear. With the majority of the stopping power in the front, why the larger rear rotor? I’m not really a downhill guy, so sorry if dumb question, just wondering.
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I personally have had really bad luck with Sram brakes over the years. Also, with long descents in Colorado I prefer having 4 piston over 2 piston. Only downside I can see is a weight penalty of about .25 lb. Also run 180 rotors front and rear and metal pads.
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Its not “normal” but it works for me, I know some pro DH riders are doing it, which is where I got the idea. A lot of these long descents are the type of descents where you are dragging your brakes a bit more than on a proper MTB singletrack trail, they are loose, with rolling rocks, you dont want to get too much momentum or your not going to get it back under control. I was cooking rear rotors, all turning black and purple, very rarely in the front.
I think what it comes down too is that the front brakes are making up for more of the power in the scenarios where you see a braking point, brake hard and proper, then let off and corner, etc. I don’t find heat build up is an issue in those situations, but in the dragging situations. But in the other scenarios the work is really split between the wheels, and in some cases, maybe the cases you are worried about the front sliding, even heavier on the rear.
Also, not claiming to be an expert, but I do have a lot of time on DH and enduro bikes in my life. This is currently something im thinking about a bit as im riding, same size rotors are probably fine fore most people, but being a quite bit bigger, and the way I ride, I like this setup currently, but likely not for everyone.
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Agree with everything here, hadn’t seen the data, but good to hear my experiences line up.
I am also very not picky on brakes, doesn’t mean I don’t notice differences, but I feel most of us can adjust to anything, except for inconsistencies, i.e. brake fade from heat, wandering bite point. Those inconsistencies can be solved by good bleads, and the proper rotors and pads for your use case.
I still use servo wave on my Enduro bike and quite like it there.
Also to note, 2.0 rotors run fine on shimano, and what I use on all my brakes. I like maguras rotors, but also the Galfers.
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I really like the frame color! great looking build!
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Formula Cura 2 piston brakes are amazing on an XC bike and cheap. I thoroughly recommend them. Powerful, consistent and low maintenance.
I had Level Ultimate on my XC bike and towards the end of a race my hands started cramping, the force required at the lever was so high. I moved on to the Cura 2 piston brakes and no issues at all since.
I’m running 4-piston XTR’s on my Epic Evo and I cannot think of a better XC brake than those. Light, powerful, low maintenance. combined with 180mm rotors they are the best. They were heavily discounted on bike closet recently.
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