The bottle will have more room at the bottom of the shock’s stroke.
Anyone here not worried about weight this year. All the podcast, youtubers and other marginal gainers are saying that wight makes the least amount of marginal gains. Though i think much of that data is from the road (you gotta think that it matters more on dirt) i am starting to not be as obsessed with weight. This year for 2025 i was going to replace my main FS XC MTB rig with something lighter. My Yeti S115 has always been a pig and the lightest I’ve been able to get it at is 25/26lbs (and talking with sb115-owners and Yeti is about as good as it gets, oh and BTW holds a Zefel Magnum) which in the world of current FS XC MTB’s is very heavy. Now I’m not as concerned and maybe keep it another year.
What’s everyone else’s take on how heavy is too heavy for an XC rig.
I think that the biggest paradigm shift has been going from chasing weight savings as primary objective to a much more reasonable and holistic “what is this extra weight giving me in return ?”. 2.4 ties with 30mm rims seem like a good return on weight added. As do the 300g you gain from a dropper post. Same for bikes that are durable enough to reliably endure anything from a modern XCO course to an ultra marathon.
However, all other things the same, I would still pick the lighter setup over the heavier one, assuming there is no big investment associated.
Personally, I feel weight (at least rotational) more on the XC bike than on ethe road bike. I think both the stepper gradients of XC and, maybe even more importantly, the constant little accelerations you do when overcoming the endless obstacles play a role. I’m happily running 1500g 60mm wheels on my road bike, tried a 1300g set and didn’t feel much if any difference. On the XC bike went from a 1600g to a 1300g wheel set and it felt like a different bike
7 Likes
My Epic 8 is 24.5 lbs with pedals…The grams I can save would be at the expense of durability (tires) or my bank account (carbon yoke, Piccola’s, titanium bolts etc) or performance (carbon cranks rather than PM cranks).
I have way more weight to lose than I could pay my way out of. 13 or so lbs by the last weigh in.
2 Likes
Weight still matters but I am not spending money to chase grams either.
It is important to remember that the “YouTubers and marginal gainers” are likely already riding a top end bike. So chasing those last 200-400 grams probably isn’t worth it from a cost standpoint. Thinking of MTB here, but the difference between that 23 pound bike they are riding and the 30 pound entry level beast is pretty dang big.
1 Like
Not on an XC bike, weight still reigns if you ask me.
On the road, aero can beat a light bike, but even the aero bikes are light.
1 Like
It’s pretty tight at the bottom, ~2-3 mm clearance to the downtube. I assume specialized locates the bolt holes on the Epic to be optimized for their cages, but maybe there are other cages that could save a little space. But fitting a 24oz podium in that spot is going to be tight no matter how you do it. See pic below. In the pic, it looks like the FA module on the shock is really close to the bottle, but it’s just the angle of the pic. No clearance issues with FA, just the nozzle resting against the shock. Pic doesn’t show clearance for the downtube bottle, but there is a ton.
1 Like
I’ve never been one to worry much about bike weight. I’d rather a bike be lighter rather than heavier, but I’m not willing to sacrifice functionality or durability for the sake a weight. And I’m not going to spend thousands of $'s to save 1-2 lbs with the lightest components. The math works out to a pound being roughly equivalent to a watt on a course that climbs ~100ft per mile. Not nothing, but not something that’s a difference maker for me. All that said, some people feel that a light bike is faster for them and what a person believes matters. Bike racing is hugely mental, so get a light bike if that makes you feel faster (because it likely will if you believe it). My epic 8 is probably around 26lbs and my gravel bike is a total pig. In my mind, a couple extra lbs is immaterial if that’s the tradeoff to get a bike performing how I want. So for me, that works. I’ve got a whole bag of excuses for when I don’t perform well in a race. Bike weight isn’t ever going to be in that bag for me.
1 Like
I just build a bike that makes me happy. Sometime I’ll geek out over a lighter part and sometimes I want something that will allow me to go faster on the DH.
1 Like
Oof yeah the FA module definitely chops off a huge portion of that area. Good to know. Planning on that upgrade for next offseason.
Ideally for 3-4 hour races this season I’m hoping to run 2 32oz bottles with 75g carbs per bottle and then another ~100g in gels. I’m confident in 3 scoops in my bottles…may have to try 4 to see how sweet it gets. Big selling point for the 8 was being able to run these races without a hydration pack for tools/water.
The amount that weight matters is really dependent on how much elevation gain is in a course. Flat is much more negligible than Leadville.
There’s usually a good balance between cost and weight, although some people just like the best of the best, in which that often means the lightest.
Ultimately, I think reliability/durability is far more important for most people (particularly those less mechanically inclined) who aren’t getting professional tune ups before each ride/race or have mechanics/support out on the course. This can even extend into the tools that people bring with them during a race. While I try and be efficient with weight, I also bring enough tools or parts to fix most any issue that I’m mechanically capable of fixing in the field.
2 Likes
Totally with you there. My problem with the industry as a whole is that there is never a “measured approach”. If it’s an identified trend people (media and brands at the forefront, but also some riders) jump on it and want to participate as well as profit from it. And feel protected by it.
Meaning: “everybody says weight doesn’t matter and todays rigs are more capable and durable and make more fun to ride because they invest in heavier designs”. And then they don’t even try anymore or build everything more burly.
Which makes it even harder for people to simply buy a nice and not overly heavy bike for their needs (weight, riding style, riding region). Not everybody wants to bomb down todays XCO rockgardens.
In typical fashion the scale is swung hard to one side until it really, really goes overboard. Incremental changes might all make sense for a certain field of application. But only when you then hop onto a nicely balanced and light bike you really feel how you fly up and across flowy trails. That’s kind of like the frog which is boiled in ever hotter water or like a person only riding hand-me-down commuter bikes and then sitting for the first time on a road bike. And thus experiencing how swift, agile and weightless they can feel on a bike.
Mind you - if all one does is shredding trails… go buy a trail bike, mount the 2.4 to 2.6 inch tires etc. to your heart’s content. Horses for corses.
3 Likes
Bike companies have tried to keep making lightweight bikes (hard tails, world cup, supercaliber, etc.), but they’ve become such a small percentage of sales that I can understand them making more investment into heavier and more capable bikes. Even at the pro level, riders are often picking the more capable bike over the lighter bike. These are folks operating on razor thin margins compared to their competition. If the lighter bike was faster, they would be riding it. So, you have female pros who weigh 55kg’s picking a heavier bike while there are amateurs who weigh 50% more while obsessing over a half a pound of bike weight. Such is cycling and holding onto old conventions. The weight obsession is more on the amateur side (in my opinion) where equipment choice can be as big a part of the hobby as fitness. Nothing wrong with enjoying the process of building and riding a super light bike. I mean, some people spend thousands getting a custom paint scheme that has zero direct performance benefit, but it makes them feel good. That’s all that matters, particularly for those of us not getting paid to ride.
3 Likes
It’s all about the best bike for the terrain you want to go fastest on. For some places, like the PNW, that’s going to be heavier, as the more capable bikes are much faster on the long, steep, technical descents. Geoff Kabush dominated the other pros at a race in whistler last year on a near 30lb build!
But in the Midwest, where I grew up, the trails are extremely smooth and rolling, so having a lightweight bike is crucial.
Personally I’ve found it super fun experimenting with new parts and trying to find that balance of lightweight and capable. So far I’ve found the best places to pick capability over lightweight have been:
- a 150mm dropper post
- upgrading to a 130mm fox gripx
- inserts and slightly beefier tires
Otoh; I’ve picked lightweight:
- lightweight wheels
- handlebars (mt zoom)
Appreciate everyone’s input and especially @grwoolf who has provided lots of input with his experience with his Epic 8.
Today I put a deposit down for an S-Works Epic 8 with FA build. It was the best option and the shop worked with me to do the build with all the parts I wanted to use. I post some pics, details of the build, and the weight once it is done.
7 Likes
Nice! Did you have access to the new colors? Should be getting my Dolomite Impasto frameset should be around sometime next week
Yes. Doing the Carbon Gold Pearl with Black fork. A bit more stealth. The Dolomite looks amazing though.
please post pics of your dolomite impasto once it’s built up. that color scheme looks amazing.
It’s a nuanced topic for sure (as all topics are, for sure).
E.g. the mentioned lightweight bikes like those short travel Supercalibers and Epic Worldcups are nice but indeed - what’s the point when the frame including hardware is about the same weight as the new Epic 8? So you hardly gain anything in using the Epic WC or just double digit grams as max. So I guess the “selling point” towards their pros might only come in a bit of hardtail ride feel in terms of stiffness and even that might be a stretch.
But let me repeat my main point: not everybody wants to ride his mountain bike in a XCO competion. And while assessed on a per single item basis, every change toward more weight might have it’s merits for sure: A dropper post belongs for many mtb’ers on every and all bike. But it weighs. Wider tires certainly offer more grip for respective trails and also offer more bottom out security. Add inserts if you really want, too. Need enough sealant for all this. More weight, still. Then everybody agreed upon 30 mm inner rim width as defacto nowadays. Cool for 2.4 inch tires but try to buy a really modern wheel which offers all the latest bells and whistles with a 25 or even a 28 mm inner rim width… Now you have to really look. If 100 mm travel suffices for you and your trails… how long will we be able to buy the latest lightweight stuff (which of course gets aimed at the pros and aimed at being sold by the starry shine of their world cup use) with 100 mm? Now it’s 120 mm all over.
Of course this results in a really capable rig. A really capbable trail riding rig. If you do trailriding, that’s cool. But if you like to continue doing the riding the former XC bikes where great for you now sit on a way too big of a sorts of bike.
But that’s not a new succession of events happening. We see that in all fields. E.G. cars. They only ever get bigger and bigger and if a class has finally gotten big enough (and thous outgrown it’s original market) a new, smaller class gets introduced below it which then takes the place of the former.
For the classic XC MTB I guess this could be in the guise of some gravel bikes, if they evolve far enough. Which some might. But we are still not there while XC bikes are leaving their old field of use. (Disclaimer - I am aware that all of my notions are a hard pill to swallow in any mtb’er frequented forum. As even the most hobbyist of a mtb rider probably see’s himself als an alltime gnarly shredder of trails and more is always more. Even if he doesn’t need it. Its like all those SUVs standing on pristine Tarmac and never leaving it - but that is another topic I already can’t sell in Europe, let alone in the states… 
).
6 Likes