Riding both the Epic WC and the Epic 8, I find it hard to really find a use-case for the Epic WC. it’s heavier than a HT, maybe almost as heavy as an Epic 8. And it’s twitchier. Maybe the Epic WC is truly made for short track and the Epic 8 is for longer stuff? Thoughts?
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Leadville 100! but are you saying same size frame with only the shock is heavier than Epic 8? Well I guess we could count the brain vs sid ultimate as well since you would run a brain fork on the WC. Next year will come with no brain according to rumors, so maybe it will get a bit lighter. Specialized says the 8 Pro is 23 and the WC Pro is 22 it’s little over 1 lbs lighter, but when you add the dropper they are basically the same weight I guess.
So is it more efficient? Does it accelerate better assuming you don’t blow to the shock and keep it as a hard tail like bike when pedaling hard?
WC just seems like a without a purpose. At least with a HT you have the weight and price benefit
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My thoughts exactly, leadville seems pretty ideal for short rear travel bikes like the WC and supercaliber. But if it’s not any lighter, I’m not sure there is enough pedaling efficiency difference to matter. The epic 8 has a full lockout, so you can have a hardtail any time you want. Downside of that is you have to lock the fork at the same time (unless you are lucky enough to have the flight attendant version).
I just spent a few days on the leadville course last week on my new epic 8, which replaced a 100/100 spark RC that also had a full lockout. Honestly, the old Scott RC is probably a better leadville bike since it’s a bit lighter and there isn’t enough tech descending to make that much difference. Comparing some segment times historically, I was a little slower on the epic climbing at same watts and very similar weight, a little discouraging to see (new bikes always feel so fast). I’m going to chalk it up to the course being a little less worn in this time of year and maybe some tire differences coming into play. Descending times couldn’t really be compared because of some sloppy sections from snow melt, but the bike is a lot more fun (less scary) to point downhill. And I still need to dial in my setup. I’m using all the rear travel, but not anywhere close on the front and I think I need to adjust my riding style a bit to the longer travel/slacker bike.
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That seems more realistic, I am 190lbs, running 2.4s on 30mm rims at 16f/17r.
Can you not set it up to 3-position similar to Fox? (Both Open, Shock Locked / Fork Open, Both Locked?) I feel like I’m switching back and forth between all three pretty frequently sometimes.
No, the 3 positions are locked, pedal, and open. And the shock and fork are in same mode. The fox/scott twin lock I have on my spark works the same. I’d love to be able to have shock locked and fork unlocked in some situations, but not sure how that would work with 3 modes on both and a mechanical lockout. The modes your fox setup has sounds good, but I’m assuming that lockout only works with 2 position fork/shock.
I am pretty sure all the Fox “2 Position” can be set up 3 position with the right setup - it comes down to cable tensioning. I have the Oiz so use their 3 position squidlock with my Fox Shock and 34SC Fork and that’s how I have it working even though it shipped advertised “2 Position” and the fox lever that came with the fork is 2 position.
You could setup 2 position fork/shock to have 3 different combos as you referenced but that isn’t the same 3 position that comes on most new bikes. Those individual dampers each have 3 settings and without some adapters or variable throw cable pulls, you can’t achieve what you’re talking about.
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Not true. At least my “2 position” fork can be set up 3 position based on cable tension. It doesn’t “switch” from closed to open, it’s based on a gradual open to closed over a range. Not sure you can do it on the shock (because it’s just one lever for fork and shock, not because of the shock itself), but the fork can effectively be Open, Firmer - Half Open/Closed, Closed.
The rumored Epic 8 aluminum must be on its way. Pictured on Escape Collective from the handmade bike show in Australia.
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wouldn’t aluminium become brittle over time from flexing? thought the rear triangle was designed as to have flex stays or am I ill-informed? They would have to be crazy cheap to compete with carbon bikes at clear out. And cheap means cheap components so a cross country bike that weighs 15kg? Don’t think they are going to market it that way. Maybe just a case study? We’ll see
Agreed, but again, that’s not the same as the actual 3 position dampers that we’re referencing. You can’t achieve a [locked rear/open front] setup with a true 3 position damper and still be able to get to [locked front and rear] unless you are adjusting cable tension in the middle of trying to actuate your lockout. Typical cable pull length is 10mm per setting I believe. So on a 3 position remote your first click pulls 10mm of cable and moves both dampers to the “pedal” setting. On the second click it pulls another 10mm of cable and moves both to the lock setting.
If you were to leave your fork’s pull cable slightly loose, you’re correct that you could in theory get to [firm rear\open front] and then [locked rear/firm front] but you would then be out of cable throw and would never get to [locked rear/locked front]. What you’re explaining can work on 2 position (which are not 3 position even if you can get it sitting in between open/locked) but it can’t work with a true 3 position damper unless you are adjusting cable lengths on the fly.
I have a 2023 Spark (120/120). A workaround for XC/Marathon I run more pressure in the shock and slightly less in the fork. Then I mostly stay in trail/pedal and I have a firm shock but a reactive fork.
I weigh 168 pounds and I have 83 psi in the fork and 220 psi in the shock (15-18% sag). Then I’m mostly just switching between fully locked and trail/pedal. Only a few sections I actually need to go Open mode.
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Maybe I’m not familiar with the dampers you’re mentioning - but but my point was I’m doing exactly that with my Fox (and one of the prior posters mentioned Fox). And, the fork damper itself is 3 position not two. I have it set up Locked Rear, Locked Front. Locked Rear, Open Front. Open Rear, Open Front. And, there’s an element of initial tensioning of how “Locked” you want the middle position to be.
Only took a few months longer than I expected for it to show its head… If I didn’t already have the Epic Evo, this bike would certainly be in my stable… With that said, the price is pretty solid, but given how many Epic Evos are out there on the second hand market for the same price or less, it would be tough for me to jump on this. I know some people want warranties and shop support, so they only buy new, and for them, this might make sense, but I’d also probably steer them to search for a 2023 Epic Evo on closeout for less money.
Unfortunately I don’t think there are any 2023 Epic Evos left.
Looks like this is the Chisel and not an Epic though. Not sure there is any appreciable difference but I could see not wanted to water down the “Epic” name 
I mean they can call it whatever they want… it’s an aluminum Epic Evo, through and through, down to the shared rear suspension linkage and overall geometry. I’m sure the motivation is keeping the Chisel and Epic lines separate, like you mentioned, as the Allez(aluminum) and Tarmac(carbon) have.
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