Indeed, as shared above.
The whole thread is a good (bad) read and still shows some of the poor attitude and general clueless take of Z reps.
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Hopefully they know throwing move developers to create a new UI will not necessary make for a faster development period… 
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Sorry, I skipped back through this thread to see if it had been brought up already, but missed that.
Yeah, that Zwift thread has quite a few face-palm moments scattered throughout.
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For high-level esports, I don’t think that would be sufficient. I think you’d need a step change improvement in power meter accuracy/consistency vs. where we are today.
Imagine if you’re in a simulated climb during a esports race and your power meter is reading 1% lower vs the guy next to you?
The table below shows measured power meter accuracy. Look at the column “mean deviation”. All brands have an absolute average deviation greater than zero. And within each brand, there is a reasonably wide range (the +/- is one Standard deviation). This simply wouldn’t cut it for competitive esports.
So I guess a long way of saying that what’s driving the Zwift valuation I don’t think is the potential of UCI-level esports on a Zwift platform, I think it’s the potential mass market appeal similar to Peloton.
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Joined both Z and TR back in 2015 and have kept both the entire time. I’ve tried everything Z has to offer over the years, but the only thing that has stuck for me is simply riding around virtually while I’m doing my TR workouts. I always thought they would eventually really invest in their workout mode and that might impact TR, but they’ve left it as basically an afterthought all these years.
I agree with one of the earlier posts that Z is just a bunch of features all stuck together without really any organization and several of those features are still half baked. I still really like the platform and doubt I will ever drop it, but I’ve learned to keep my expectations low when it comes to their development. I just focus on my TR plans and if something looks cool on Zwift here and there maybe I’ll take part.
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I’m a sucker for achievements/badges so Zwift checks boxes for me with that aspect and I can do my actual TR training while riding around in Zwift either doing events/tours or collecting route badges. 
ETA: I used to really like seeing my Tour of Sufferlandria (and 8 Days of California?) badges on my TR career page back in the day too–would be cool if TR had some other badges/challenges to collect these days.
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I am not a Zwift user as of yet, but as every racer and competitive athlete in this forum knows, there is incredible synergy between quality structured training and competitive performance. I would suspect that, up until this point Zwift has not had the resources to focus on their workout offering given the significant interest in their virtual racing platform. However, with the funding they have received, and perhaps including their relationship with Specialized mentioned earlier, I expect that this will change.
They have had a number of coaches involved most who have worked on the marketing of Z rather than developing the plan base. Shayne Gaffney is the exception, but i expect he has a narrow brief
@shawrx, I do the exact same, plus the badges as @wyku mentioned. It’s basically paying for some form of basic “entertainment” while completing the workouts. Truth be told, I have not used TR’s Group Workouts yet to see if that scratches the itch. I work out super early east coast time, though, and almost always customize my workouts (extended warm up, etc) so not sure that this is viable in my particular case.
I do plan to try some Zwift races, though. I used to do a bunch when I was slow (pre-TR) and have really focused on sustained power and sweet spot base over the last year or so and not racing. I just started Short Power Build since that is a huge weakness for me and will see if I can work in some races. I’m so OCD, though, that adhering to the TR plan and hitting my marks is usually enough to keep me motivated.
There is a fledgling TR team that was recently started on Zwift so if you’re using both feel free to join in ZwiftPower (shameless plug).
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I forgot about that part. I also really like collecting the route badges/leveling up as I ride around doing my TR workouts.
The tours are fun too, I do most of them although I’m usually riding them while doing a TR workout so I just get dropped during the recovery intervals and end up riding alone!
Occasionally I actually “free ride” an event. I’m doing the Haute Route this weekend, skipping 3 days of TR workouts and replacing them with the 3 stages just to mix things up a bit.
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I find I’m most engaged in racing when I’m part of a series, especially with a friend or two involved too. Just doing random races doesn’t do much for me. Having a weekly race series is easier to fit into the training schedule too since it can typically be the/a harder effort for the week and the longer races usually end up more sweetspot/threshold like than complete smash fests (especially on the flatter courses)–except for the starts of course, those are always ridiculous in Zwift racing. 
ETA: The original CVR World Cup was really cool, but then they took their ball and went home and setup their own game, which is…interesting… The SweatFest series is the one I did last year and it was quite fun and well attended.
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I’ve probably done less then 10 races on Z in the 5 years I’ve been on the platform. I’ll give them credit for trying to create a cool experience by making drafting and tactics a part of the game but it’s still basically just a TT for the entire duration of the race.
I think most on this forum would agree following an actual structured training plan is far superior compared to hammering out a TT effort day after day in Zwift races.
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- I don’t think anybody here suggested doing ONLY Z races for training is better than following a workout-based plan.
What many of us do is ride maybe 1 race per week, as a “non-workout, hard effort” on the bike/trainer.
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It is unique in that there are no “restraints” like we get in the capped workouts.
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It is more akin to the weekly group ride (Weeknight or Weekend Worlds) where you can hang it out as hard or easy as you want.
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TT style effort or not, people can ride them in a way that notably differs from the typical TR or Z workout. It is refreshing to have that “freedom” compared to just knocking out workouts continuously.
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The level of uncertainty that exists when riding in a group and not knowing the point or amount that things will ease up is a notable difference vs predefined interval lengths and efforts. That great “unknown” is a huge element of the mental game that exists when we take our fitness out to play in real rides and races.
- You typically won’t get much if any of that in “workouts”, unless you choose to do them “blind” and hide or ignore the interval duration at the least.
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I think doing the odd 20 minute or 60 minute race is good for letting you know what you’re really capable of.
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For sure. I’m more thinking of your serious Zwift racer. They seem to always be the most vocal in the forums and facebook groups and make it sound like they are racing 4-5 days a week.
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And there is the crux of the problem with Zwift racing within this forum!! You’ve done less than 10 races so are inexperienced when it comes to racing. If you think it’s a TT effort, you haven’t learned how to race on Zwift.
If you’d said you’d done less than 10 IRL races then you couldn’t honestly say that you had good race craft. Regardless of what people thing, there is a skill in mastering how to race on Zwift.
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Many serious Zwift racers are racing 4-5 times a week. And they do have an off season. And they do train specifically for Zwift racing. Many of them are serious athletes, current and ex-professional riders.
The calibre of riders at the top in Zwift racing is pretty incredible. Many people are recognising now that within cycling there is something different about the physiology of an elite level Zwift racer.
This is true and something that most people underestimate.
Some of the A and A+ Zwift Races are very hard and there are serious international ex-pros, national champions. It’s one of the few times that you can see how you stack up against ex-WT guys.
I just wish there was more of a dedicated focus around tuning the meta for racing and not just making it “first across the line” as the only format.
The racing has always felt like such an after thought from Zwift.
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True, and a result of them choosing to ignore it for years. They left it in the hands of the community to create, grow and manage… until they finally saw the $$$ hiding within
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The grass routes races started with actual text comment count downs and landmark finishes with no actual timing. Fortunately, it grew well past that when the organizers connected with Z and the Z opened up some tools to them to allow for actual tracking and timing. It came from nothing, and formed to something of value with the evolution of ZwiftPower, which Z now controls.
- The virtual world aspect should allow for many more options than we have in the real world. There have been some attempts by organizers with varied formats, but most still have a “finish line”.
- I’ve had a ball with the Cat & Mouse (along with other names) where they start the groups slowest first, with a time gap, then the next fastest category and so on. Idea being a race where the group at the front tries to stay away from the chasers (like an immediate break away, but one that has a power disadvantage) while the chasers aim to close the gap… all before the finish.
- There have been others that I probably don’t even know. Main point being that there are new and different options available if we get some smart and creative people to form them into new race types. Hell, if they finally get around to making the “ghost” feature, it could be a blast to race one of your own prior events or one from a friend that was done at a different time.
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