Yeah, I screwed up. I had both forums open and lost track of what was who. There was a layoff thread on the Zwift forums that was locked, so it’s a touchy subject. It’s just hard for me personally to not see this as a ‘everyone is doing it’ thing. But yes, they have to run their companies the way they see they need to. Investors or not, if they can’t make a profit, at least at some point in their existence, people won’t put their money into it, and eventually the money they have access to will dry up.
Zwift had plans to sell their own hardware, even showing the nearly finished product, so killing it means people aren’t needed. The whole pandemic sure has been a bite in the butt for so many businesses. Many didn’t make it through the mess. Looking at the wreckage/carnage, it’s amazing so many did make it through.
And I jumped to conclusions, and waxed philosophical about the employees. But in the end, life sucks, and it’s all ‘just business’. I shouldn’t jump into things here like I have.
The Twitter undertow has likely added a dark sheen to the term ‘layoff’. Those were unusually brutal, capricious, ruthless, cruel. Getting ‘fired’ by text message? Getting ‘fired’ by trying to do your job and being locked out? People getting threatened for stealing company property? Yikes… I return to the darkness at the back of the stage. Ride on…
Thanks for the follow-up comment. I am right with you on the majority of this and feel for anyone who gets cut like this or in worse ways we’ve seen elsewhere. The emotion in and around this is understandable as well.
Hard agree here…it still amazes me that so many thought the growth curve was going to continue post-pandemic. People mistook that “ceiling” as the new “floor”.
Honestly, it amazes how so many financially smart people can be so grossly incorrect when analyzing company growth potential.
Another hard agree here…but by all reports, Zwift is treating the separated employees well. Severance packages, bonuses paid, healthcare provided. etc.
Could Zwift have better managed the post-pandemic business side of things? I would say “yes”…especially managing expectations of investors. But they at least seem to be doing as right as possible for those who lost their jobs.
I think this is definitely true. Having been on the wrong end of a few layoffs, that’s a much better package than I ever got. And including the bonuses is especially generous - most places will do everything they can to do lay offs before the bonuses if possible.
The thing that bugs me about Zwift is that it’s such a wasted opportunity as far as game design goes. There’s not much there to hook you in long term and incentivize players from an exploration sense, no RPG elements, the challenges are boring etc. Imagine if Zwift was like Forza Horizon instead of Forza motorsport? There could be cycling games that take the form of a pixel graphics RPG where you ride a bike around and explore regions, collect items, battle other players, whatever.
In short, I think this genre could be a lot more fun. Instead we have two games that have different graphics but are basically the same thing. Why are so many companies in this space so complacent (Strava, Zwift, Wahoo)? Maybe I should work on something…
I think this comes down to whether you feel you’re playing a game or riding/racing a bike. Most of the things you named would discourage many from using Zwift, but would also bring in some more game oriented people. I personally feel like banana peels and elbows would push more people away than it draws. Mountain biking/steering was widely ignored when they tried that.
I think it is an interesting option…as we have discussed, offering “better” graphics or better racing dynamics are not enough to pull over a substantial number of Zwifters.
What is required is a different user experience….and maybe further gamifying the experience is the answer.
And they don’t need to de-throne Zwift, just get enough users to convert to make it a viable platform. Every Hertz needs an Avis.
You may even get some people dual-platforming if the experience warrants it.
Their user base would likely disagree. And I’d be willing to bet (completely uneducated guess) that the cross over between Zwift riders and people who would want a RPG game is small enough that you would likely alienate a large chunk of your user base. It is hard not to project your own needs and wants, but effective product management demands it.
I’m not sure if I’m a typical Zwift user, but I do keep coming back each year. I can definitely say I’ve no interest in making any sort of a game out of it, any more than it is now. I’ve seen sustained growth in the user base so clearly they’re doing something right. It obviously isn’t without shortcomings, but it is good enough and engaging enough to keep thousands of people riding at any moment in time.
It is hard not to project your own needs and wants, but effective product management demands it.
There’s no need to use loaded terms like “projection,” it’s just an idea. I didn’t claim it was the most best right path for Zwift. It’s okay for people to throw ideas out there, I made no argument beyond that. This isn’t reddit, we don’t need this kind of negativity.
I’ve seen sustained growth in the user base so clearly they’re doing something right.
You claimed Zwift has wasted an opportunity, it does not have much to hook users in the long term or incentivize players from an exploration sense, that it could be more fun and that Zwift (and other companies) is complacent. It is one thing to suggest a feature, it is completely different to claim a “wasted opportunity” and then insert your own idea as an improvement. One is constructive while the other is confrontational.
You’re almost definitely right that numbers are down from peak, I don’t think that should come to anyone as a surprise. But I would also be willing to bet they managed to retain enough of the user base acquired during the pandemic. Completely anecdotal on my part, but I see more riders today than I have pre-pandemic.
You’re incorrectly generalizing what I said and pointing to appeals to popularity for why you believe I’m wrong. I don’t have to be right, they were just ideas. Throwing ideas or criticism into the air about a corporation is not “confrontational.” It’s not an uncommon opinion that Zwift squandered their capital on hardware initiatives and let the software stagnate. For whatever reason what I wrote struck a nerve with you, and I don’t think there’s productive conversation to be had here given your overly critical tone.
True. But in this case, it does however look a lot like “belt tightening” and back to focusing on core business. They especially seem to be cutting marketing. They must have blown a ton of money on marketing. Not without results - for sure. But must have cost a lot.
Yes, I recognize that. I also work in the public sector (in Scandinavia). We have tons of re-structuring and shifting around which agency have the responsibility for what - purely for political reasons. Gives me plenty of work - at least until the day they consider me redundant
All they see if dollar sings unfortunately and everyone is a number. Sad but been working for publicly traded companies for a while now and employees are secondary. Unless you are high up where the big $$ is paid in salaries, free stock, etc.
Feel for those people being let go. Wonder how the associate numbers compare to pre covid vs what this will be. As in even with layoffs will they have more before “staffing” up?
No guns. How about tranquilizer darts, freeze rays, glitter bombs, Nickelodeon style ‘goo super soakers’?
I ride Zwift because it’s somewhat engrossing, and it’s easy to have time fly while riding. Sure, some rides drag on, but, for me, those days were when I was shuffling my whole music library and just kept getting dud picks for tunes. I have a large collection of classical music, and Mozart is great, but for certain things, NOT a HIIT ride. At least not for me.
I also look for the UI flaws, and avatars of other riders. TR is good too for different reasons, like heads down pain sessions and just getting it done. (Hoping Zwift job cuts mean no price increase soon)
I did think that Zwift could also do a ‘wacky ride’ for April Fools, or some other day. Having ‘teleport’ spots that zap you to another route, have ‘weather’ that effects the demand, have earthquakes (too soon?), or for steerable routes have Godzilla pop up laying waste to the scenery. Maybe have ‘upside down rides’? The sky is the limit…
I could never really get into Zwift. The only riding on there I enjoyed was when my coach would instruct me to “find a hill and do repeats” or “on every hill grind it out at a low cadence” or “when a rider passes you latch onto their wheel and hold on for 30 seconds then drop off and chill for a minute. Then repeat”.
Once I go back to self coached my dilemma will be should I stick with TR or just do stuff like that on Zwift
It is baffling that Zwift needs so many employees to run what is essentially an indie-level video game.
You’d think the Apple TV version would work a lot better if so many people were involved…
