Agreed, that’s why I am finding this hype of “Zone 2” rather unbearable. The way San Millan talks about it,
there’s something missing, intentionally or not. “Go ride in Zone 2 for a few hours three days a week” is
a rather vague prescription.
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Just an FYI: those are not my words (most of them, anyway).
Yeah, not your fault.
For future reference, a couple of dead giveaways that somebody at TP has played editor without my permission are:
-
if they attribute the article to Andy Coggan (I have only ever published under my full name), and/or
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using both the appellation “Dr.” and listing my terminal degree, “PhD”, which is redundant. (Similarly, it is incorrect to list multiple degrees, e.g., “BS, MS, PhD*”, except when they are in different fields/represent different tracks, e.g., “MD, PhD”.)
ETA: With respect to this specific article, anybody who knows me knows that I would never endorse lab-based testing as the most accurate approach. After all, I have been pointing out that “the best predictor of performance is performance itself” for almost 40 y.
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Basic ISM question. He prescribes his Z2 by lactate. I don’t have a meter. He also prescribes the talk test.
I’ve always interpreted the talk test as being able to recite the pledge of allegiance and came up with under 125bpm for myself. This is my Z2/Z3 border using WKO classic zones or iLevels.
Lately, we’ve been talking about how ISM Z2 is really tempo. So I was noticing that just after 125bpm (125-130bpm) my breathing noticeably ticks up a notch and I want to breath with my mouth open (VT1?). I can still talk though it is harder to do.
Also, when my breathing his this point, I’m just at about tempo power.
So I had it all wrong and ISM Z2 is tempo?
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
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It depends, are you sitting or standing for the pledge while you ride? 
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For some people yes, for others no. Its appears it is very individual when put alongside the traditional 5 zone model. As has been said before on here (I assume), he has his own zones based on substrate utilisation. For me I find out the point that my ventilation just starts to increase using the AlphaHRV app on my Garmin. I call this my AeT. ISMZ2 is then Aet to Aet+10 and on those steady rides I try to sit at the lower to middle end of it.
I am totally amused by this simplified recommendations that are given by “coaches”.
“Ride Z2, and do 15-20 min Z4 intervals.” WTF does that really mean?
Without knowing what Pogacar is really doing and what his physiology is (at what Fat/CHO intensity is he riding, what is his lactate curve, what is his Z2/Z3/Z4 with regards to lactate/metabolic curves),
it’s completely meaningless.
I’ve heard a few coaches talking about pro-cycling coaching:
- Sebastian Weber (when he was coaching Bora riders)
- Mathieu Heijboer (Jumbo)
- Mattias Reck (team Trek)
I don’t watch a podcast with an expectation they will lay out the specifics of their workouts, for free. Not to be too glib, but if you were paying them for their services, you’d have the opportunity and expectation to get a full explanation from them. You might have to ask your new coach to be more specific the first couple weeks, but it likely wouldn’t take long to reach an understanding.
I’m probably alone on this opinion around here, though.
I am certainly not expecting them to give advice. And even if they did, how does that relate to
my or your training? Your physiology is different than Pogacar’s. So, blindly following what somebody
says is probably not very smart.
We are jumping from one method to another, going from one “guru” to another, trying to find one
magic workout and magic zone…
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For me… It means ride for x amount of time (say 60 min), in the middle do something like 10 x 2 min with 1:1 recovery (or some version), ride another 90-120 minutes.
Or… after a routine warm-up, do the workout and go ride a few more hours after.
Obviously there’s more instruction to the team/individual but there’s no magic workouts and most overthink things… a lot.
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It all depends I guess. It is a never ending debate ;-). I have a lactate meter at home and my LT1 is around 220w (for an FTP of 265-270). So…ISM Z2 would be around 210-225W…
That would be low tempo for me in a normal zone style definition.
But what works? Maybe we need to do more n=1 cases? ;-). Because when you reed some books like Friel’s training bible and Thomas Chapelle Base Building. They set there endurance rides around LT1 (like ISM). But I thought we should also do some easier base rides? 60% FTP kinda stuff? Certainly on high volume you can not ride all endurace rides at ISM Z2 so maybe do some easier base rides too.
Hi!
What’s the general consensus regarding the practice of lactate lab testing among regular individuals (not competing), particularly in regard to accurately defining zones, especially Zone 2? Is this considered too hard core?
I’m caught in the rhetoric of the pros and the importance of base training, but it’s really thought to go slow the two times I go for a ride in a week … constantly battling between relaxing and going for it. As an amateur I’m looking to improve my health, I understand the benefits of Z2 for endurance in the long run, but I’m struggling between “training” and having fun at being healthy.
During the winter, when on a trainer, I was doing a lot of Z2 as it is easier in a more controlled environment … but now, when I’m outside, everything changes. 
Oh, well … the curse of feeling the need to optimize everything …
and sport/exercise science?? Oxymoron!!! 
My take: don’t bother. Really, don’t bother. And don’t fall for this zone 2 health thing. Do your stuff consistently and sustainably. And have fun with it. It’s a self-regulating system if you’re honest with yourself.
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And what most folks on here are going to try to convince you is that you can do both. Having fun and “training” are one in the same (for amateurs…or they can be).
Quick background: I did a fair bit of lactate testing (had fun, learned a lot). I don’t do it anymore.
There is a thread dedicated to lactate testing and results. It’s fun and enlightening to simply read through it, but don’t think it is in any way compulsory to success. Having said that, don’t be one one of those guys who goes on there and poo-poo’s on the thread because you think “lactate is overkill” or whatever. It’s simple. Just ignore the thread if you’re not going to contribute constructively (of course, that goes for all threads but lactate in particular seems to be one of those hot button topics)
Since this is your first time posting (presumably), you need to read the above comment with context. It is coming from a rider (@sryke) who did lactate, who did ISM Zone 2, who started and is the biggest contributor to the pro training thread. My point is it is not simply a random hot take about lactate because they are parroting Coggan or the general consensus for amateurs, which is: don’t bother. You’ll hear that a lot, mostly from ppl who don’t have first hand experience with it and don’t know what they are talking about.
Many of us have tried it first hand because opinions on the internet (even from high level athletes and coaches) weren’t good enough. I also had a coach at the time who knows his stuff regarding testing protocols, interpretation of the data, etc. So my recommendation is if you’re going to do it, don’t try to go alone. Simply establishing and figuring out where LT1 is located on the curve (assuming you believe that is even a thing) requires a trained eye.
This is a common misconception (maybe THE most common). As long as you’re not seeing wild swings in power for +30secs and are generally in the Zone 2/3 (Coggan) range, you feel like you’re riding basic endurance (even on rolling hills or a little steep terrain), and you’re HR is fairly stable, you’re good. Don’t overthink it. I ride rolling terrain all the time…endurance on flat, tempo on hills.
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Thank you both for your valuable feedback! I really appreciate a constructive opinion/debate.
Its just the everlasting effort to find a balance between getting the most benefit out of a workout (1-3 times a week) and, as said before, to just go all in and let go all the “rules”. 
I’ve started cycling last summer and I really love it, so naturally I also started digging deeper ever since … but as you dig, from time to time, you find yourself in a whole. 
Today 3hr Z2 70% with 3.4decoupling. Under 5% so that is pretty ok. 6 says ago also 2hr LT1 (79%) with also under 5% decoupling.
Sign that my aerobic base is not that bad I guess?
But plan is to build aerobic capacity still better bh using Steve Neal’s tempo approach…