It is whatever tire is in this photo, won the Euro champs.
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Seems like the consensus in this thread is to get Super Race casing if you get Ray/Ralph, but the BicycleRollingResistance tests says Super Ground tested faster and closes out their review with:
If you’re interested in fast Schwalbe mountain bike tires, we recommend the Super Ground casing over the Super Race casing with the same compound.
Seems a bit counterintuitive?
I think the super race is softer than Super Ground
First off, you’re insane for doing CTR but more power to you, I wish I had balls that big. I’m sure that the guys racing at the pointy end are looking for something fast rolling, but IMO if I was going to be riding at night / and or sleep deprived across vast unsupported differences I’d suck it up and go with something you know that is durable.
That said, having just mounted Rekon/Rekon Race I regret the decision… purely because it was dumb given I have 2 wheel sets and had intended one to be for faster conditions and the other for burlier. Now I have Ground Controls on 1 and Rekon/RR on the other and there’s not enough differentiation. The Rekon/RR are grippy, but I can clearly feel the weight increase over my previous tires. I’m going to keep the Ground Control on my spare / training wheels, but pop off the Rekons and keep them around for after the Ground Controls wear out, then give Ray/Ralph a shot on my racier wheels as I should have from the start. Oh well.
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@tgarson … It is a bit of a ridiculous undertaking, but kind of the next step for me after a couple successful seasons at other races. I’ll be one of the guys at the pointy end, amongst a handful of other really strong guys with some big accomplishments in their past. I’m certainly not underestimating the route, and know its as much a hiking race as it is a bike race…
I’ve tended towards your line of thinking in leaning towards a bit burlier tire in lieu of some speed, and it really has done well for me in the last two years(over 1,500 miles of off-road racing and zero punctures). But with that said, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m pretty “easy” on my tires. Full disclosure, in ten years of riding tubeless MTB and Gravel, I’ve never plugged a tire…insert touch wood. So, I’m willing to push that realm a bit in search of some obvious savings(weight and RR potentially). In fact, despite how everyone speaks of the Race King as a rather fragile tire, it was my choice for lasts month’s Pinyons & Pines. A gamble, but seeing as it was a “B” race for me, I wanted to experiment a bit. Over 60 miles of pretty infamously rough and rocky AZT was included in this years route(30 of which I rode at night), and without adding inserts or bumping my pressure beyond my normal values(18/19) I had no issues. Honestly if they made a 2.4 version, I’d be hard pressed to look past it. Zero experience with the Cross King or Mountain King, but they don’t seem as well regarded.
I will admittedly hedge my bets a bit in my search, by sticking to one of the three brands that I’ve had luck with; being Conti, Schwalbe, and Vittoria. At this moment, I’m thinking I’ll order the Vittoria Syerra 2.4’s, and a Schwalbe Will/Ralph 2.35 setup.
I know Conti has a “follow up” tire in the works, rather than simply a larger Race King. Whether or not that is what we want is yet to be determined, and likely still a year out at the rate things in the industry move, unless there’s a little nudge from the Olympics.
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I’m signed up for Lutsen this weekend. And with a ton of mud, and recovering from flooding last weekend, regrading in spots, I think I’m going to give the 2.35 Ray/Ralph a try over the Race King for just a little more volume. (For those of you who don’t know the race, there’s a ton of fast gravel and pace-lining too, so rolling resistance matters and don’t want to go too aggressive, there will just be a whole bunch of brief muddy spots and puddles from 6-18" deep)
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On the back of BRR.com posting the results for the Wicked Will’s, I pulled the trigger on the cart I’ve had sitting at R2bike(I ordered the Super Ground Version)… Summary of results, is that they test right about where you’d hope for them to… Obviously slower than the Racing Ralph/Ray with the same compounds, but really comparable to the Barzo/Mezcal TNT’s, and a bit quicker than the Rekon Race. They look to offer quite a bit more traction/grip than any of those other tires, on the drum, but also based on the eye test I’d expect them to be predictable in loose stuff as well.
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This is an aside, but in every BRR review I’m struck by them listing Mezcal as having some of the best puncture resistance out there. This is the opposite of my experience. I have flatted more mezcals than any other tire I’ve ever ridden combined. It makes me question their puncture test methodology, but I could have just had bad luck.
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I’ve had great luck with several different Mezcals over the last five years, including the TLR version and the TNT version, with no issues on either… Although as mentioned above, I’m pretty easy on tires.
Based on RR and comments from friends, the ground version is better in every way. I have one ready for the rear wheel. I just want to squeeze a few more miles from the aspen I am running atm.
Anyone know the true weight and have a real world comparison of the Racing Ray Speed grip 2.35 vs Barzo?
Im losing faith in my Barzo after it’s skipped out a few times on dry corners and then I noticed the centre tread pattern is uneven, like I don’t have a complete half of the tyre on the left hand side, so maybe a faulty tyre. I’m intrigued to try the Ray and I value confidence up front.
I’ve been running the Speedgrip compound and they have been a great tire. Just like any, get them on the side knobs, and they bite. Have saved me a few times.
I’m running them on an Epic Evo, and have also ran the Ray/Ralph combo…I actually like the Wills.
I swapped out my 2.6” XR4 tires for 2.4” last week. Have Wicked Will on the rear. 2 mins faster up a 45 min climb than the 2.6s. Really like the traction. Also are robust / puncture resistant on rocky Colorado trails. Becoming my favorite tire for trail riding - good all around blend of speed, grip, toughness. With option to swap front to Nobby Nic for some extra traction for looser desert riding.
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Got myself in a twist now. Investigating the slightly lopsided Barzo, what to do after I’ve read of people washing out Wicked Wills in dry dust. My option - note I’m not a “leaner”:
A) Stick with the slightly duff Barzo 2.25 (on roval control) and live with it, even though I have a 2.35 Mecal out back - is the bike handling off with this weird combo maybe?
B) Buy a new 2.35 Barzo to “spread” the knobs a little for maybe more cornering grip?
C) I have a new Ground Control Grid T7 hanging about - live with the 100g weight penalty and use that for more grip up front?
Thoughts? I’m racing 4hr Marathon next weekend - lost of climbing and some bermed descending and I’ve never ridden a ground control before for some added context.
Or
D) a completely different recommended pairing?
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The Wicked Wills do drift a little on loose over hard pack, but not any more than other tires I’ve been on.
They’ve saved me on some of overcooked corners. I’ve been running them front and back for a while. The back is getting worn now, so I’ll either swap it with the Ralph I have or just get a new Will.
I also have two brand new Ikons collecting dust.
I mean that I’m not person that rails the edges of a tyre, for example I prefer a rounded shape other than something - extreme example - like a High Roller becuase I’m almost always in the transition gap.
Also, I’m a confidence rider, so I need a front that will stick. If I have confidence in the front I’m - relatively - fast, otherwise I’m losing time to other riders.
Again I’m not sure if it’s the slightly wonky Barzo or the fact the Epic seems to have a lighter / flightier front end than my Spark and I need to ride leaning on the front more, but needing to do that with a tyre that’s skipping in the dust is a bit counter intuitive.
.
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Cross King?
In in the middle of that learning curve coming from my 2017 spark RC to a new epic 8. I’ve always had a bias toward weighting the rear and it’s highlighted with the switch to the epic (which is a much, much longer bike and I also opted for an XL epic frame coming from a Lg in the spark). I rode for 6+ hours fri/sat on a course with a bunch of really loose/rocky cornering and felt like I was getting better at loading the front. But it’s still a work in process.
For the most part, I’m loving the new epic. I knew the geometry would make if feel more like a trail bike, but I didn’t expect such a dramatic reduction in trail chatter and keeping composed while peddling hard on chunky stuff. The suspension feels so much better. I’m still up in the air on whether I like the twist grip lockout after running a lever for so long, but I’m going to give it a chance before deciding if I’ll swap back to a lever. SRAM transmission works well, but I’m not sure I agree with folks calling it a game changer. Yeah, it’s better under load and shifts are really crisp and deliberate, but it’s also slower to dump the cassette. Another learning curve. And I have been able to get it to “hiccup” a couple times changing gears, so it’s not always perfect. It’s the best shifting SRAM groupset out there, but not so good that I’d replace a working eagle group or worry about finding a udh frame.
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It’s interesting you should find similar. There’s a thread on another channel discussing the modern geo needing more weight on the front wheel.
Ok, so I think I’ll leave the barzo on and experiment with pushing my chest forward a bit.
Neuromancer - yes Pippingford, it looks to be a dry one!
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I think you just completely solved the mystery of how I became so shit all of the sudden. I got a new slacker bike in the spring and had no problems with it because dirt was tacky. Fast forward it’s been very hot and dry and things have gotten loose much earlier in the season than normal. I think I’ve been oversteering on my fork and causing my front tire to wash out because I’m not used to how much I need to lean on a slacker bike. Now because I’ve washed and gone down a bunch I’m finding it even harder to commit and lean which is perpetuating the whole thing. Will have to get over it.
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