This!
Me too, classic and so true.
Boy what a difference a year makes on the forum! Saw similar questions on the forum last year and before that and the internet almost exploded.
Long live tempo and endurance, whatever coaching system you use.
How much did you used to train?
Another vote for this. My ālong slow ridesā are usually not that easy or slow. In the early days of COVID, I took the opportunity to do 1 or 2 long (~100mile) solo Z2 rides per week to see how my body would react to heavy Z2 ātraditionalā base training. Holding high Z2 for 5+ hours takes real concentration and effort by the end. I wouldnāt call it easy and my average speed can be be higher than my normal Saturday āfastā group ride. By keeping steady Z2 power, Iām cruising at over 20mph and I once averaged over 21mph on a day with light winds. Not race speeds, but the average is good because youāre never letting the power drop.
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Not sure if you really need longer LSD than 4h. Thatās already pretty good.
All the benefits are mentioned above.
One thing to consider is:
Of course you can just do intensity rides, but at some point, you will need more volume.
Unless you donāt want to do 14 one hour rides per week, you will need some 4h ridesā¦
I like riding bikes. Sometimes itās fun to noodle along for a long while without killing myself. If you donāt, then donāt.
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LSD is just as hard i find as a VO2 workout, just in a different way.
One of the biggest things I found this year having spent a lot of last winter focusing on Sunday long z2 rides is my fatigue resistance this year is SO MUCH higher. I dont get the āfadeā after 2.5-3hrs that I used to see, and after seeing some big decoupling going over the winter and early spring, I dont see much of that anymore. The gains i got as well when i did start focusing on VO2 work were also much more pronounced as I think I had a much more solid foundationt o build upon.
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Jack Daniels formalizes this āharder easyā concept for running by alternating weekly between a classical long run and one with a section done at a faster tempo, somewhere around your marathon pace (his so-called āMā sessions). This ramps from 20 minutes up to 60, with 20 minutes easy before and after. The cycling equivalent would be a Z2 ride with a good section at low Z3 in the middle.
Just did one of those this morning (running, that is). 20 mins easy, 45 mins faster (but the easy kind of faster), 15 mins easy. They are demanding but not daunting, and you recover easily from them as long as the tempos are set right.
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That. I see the crossover from doing long(ish) runs into doing longer bike rides (for me - anything over 2 hours on the bike is long for my limited capabilities), without fading at all.
Ugh, I remeber doing a 2x7 M pace run and also a traditional long run in the same week. I did make really good run gains in that build though
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Last year I was doing bigger rides (which for me is 60-80 miles with 4000-600ft of climbing) that were mostly Z2 with threshold/VO2 max up short (5-15 min) climbs instead of doing a build plan. Now that I can do TR workouts outdoors I followed short power build low vol to the letter and gained 8% on my FTP. the down side is that Iām 7lbs heavier now than I was last year due to less volume. This year I have been able to bang out an occasional similar long ride and I feel better afterwards than I did last year. For me personally I think that I respond better to VO2 workouts and my overall fitness is better, but my lack of total volume has led to being heavier but not less fit.
Iāve been training with structure for 3 years now.
Always followed a Threshold/Sweet Spot/Tempo approach via TrainerRoad plans. Lots of gray zone interspersed when not doing intervals. 250-300 hrs/yr.
Never truly did a Z2/endurance ride that was over 90 min until this year.
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So only 5-6 hours per week? No wonder you got a big boost from just riding more. In my experience, you need to get up to 15 hours per week or so before the benefits of just adding pure volume start to level out.
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You are 100% right Power13.
If your long rides are slow, you have a lot to work on.
Just look at the long ride of any professional. Anything, but slow.
Sadly, if your long rides are technically slow, you are just weak.
Itās helped immensely with my fatigue resistance beyond 2 hrs. I used to hit an inflection point in my rides where my hear rate was pegged at 5-7 beats below LTHR and wouldnāt drop, since working longer, slower rides into the week that has largely gone away. Looking back I didnāt have much of an aerobic base. Some say ābase is baseā as in, you can build one with LSD or Sweet Spot, but my N=1 tells me that Sweet Spot doesnāt build a deep base. Just made me good at riding Sweet Spot.
At what point does a cyclist hit a point where say, a 4 or 5hr endurance ride does nothing for them? Then what? 6hr? Back to back rides?
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Are you saying that based on your experience a person should favor volume up to ~15 hrs week vs intensity if the intensity limits the volume?
Or said differently volume trumps structure/intensity up to a certain point if you have to choose?
When you mention Z2 and even Z3 are you talking about the 3-zone model or 7-Level? I typically mountain bike but have been adding in a lot of endurance rides this year on my gravel bike and I feel like I can ride everyday at this point, it feels great! I do not have a powermeter so have been putting a cap on my HR at around 150. I try to stick 134-150bpm during the rides. My max HR Iāve hit is 192. This rides are slow at this point but I am ok with that as it has been a lot of fun and I realize have a lot of work to do which keeps the motivation high.
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In this case this is talking about the 7 zone model. So Z2 is endurance and Z3 is tempo. Iām not sure anyone would call Seiler Z3 a Long or Slow Ride!
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Haha that is what I was thinking but I was just making sure!
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