Here’s an example. I am a bit over 4 w/kg ftp somewhere between 270-285 depending on the day. I’m 67kg. Hardly impressive numbers. This huge guy on our club ride is probably a 350 watt ftp. There is a false flat about 12 minutes long. I can sit in his draft going 28 mph average speed. I’m anywhere from just 200 watts with surges to 5 or 600 for the rollers. I won’t get dropped and at the end I am still pretty fresh. I am smart enough to be defensive and not take a pull. If it were 20 minutes long or had a crosswind, I would get dropped. My ability to recover, my quickness to react and anticipate accelerations with cadence and body position control, and my control of my power zones are more important than my ftp or my watts per kg in those moments.
His FTP is more “important” than mine if the false flat was longer or there is a crosswind and he stayed fast and steady. Since it is not longer, his huge ftp is meaningless unless he also has the ability to attack and attack meaningfully enough times to drop me in that 12 minutes (which he would do if his aerobic fitness was strong enough to recover). His skill as a rider to drop me has become more important than his ftp.
At the end is a 25 minute climb 6 percent the first half, 10-17% for the second half. I climb the first half at a steady 250 watts, ending around 300, with short surges to 400 on the steep parts. I will wait at least 5 minutes for him at the top.
My skills have been proven more important than my watts per kg or my ftp.
Even on flat ground, your body size influences how fast you can accelerate, your rolling resistance, and how many air molecules you have to push out of the way. That’s why cyclists as big as Ganna aren’t common, and why there aren’t weight classes like in other sports such as rowing to prevent big folks from dominating. Wpk is therefore a better overall indicator than plain watts, and to claim that FTP is unimportant just because one ol’ fat dude can motor along ok at a steady speed on a flat road is simply silly.
Agreed, 4 wpk isn’t impressive. Even if you sprint like Sagan and corner like Nibali, you’ll be hard-pressed to get beyond cat. 3 with that FTP.
Meanwhile, people with bigger motors shown off in Zwift or in other sports like running or XC skiing are being offered pro contracts right out of the box. I guess all those DSs have it wrong?
Whether it’s the 20min, 8min or ramp test, none of them determine your actual FTP, they just make an approximation based on a calcuation. You can only determine your actual FTP by killing yourself for 1hr.
Just choose which works best for you and stick to it. No need to hate on the ramp if it doesn’t work for you, the 8 and 20min are available in TR.
I didn’t claim FTP wasn’t important. I claimed that two riders of the same w/kg can have different performance on different terrain, specifically that a heavier higher power rider can still outpace a lighter rider with the same w/kg on flat ground. That’s why we have a guy at our local crits who can sit on the front and pull all day without being tired but can’t climb with the same group to save his life
I’ve seen quite a bit of the opposite as well, but usually when referring to other’s FTP. I’ve seen countless comments when people mention their ramp test FTP, and get told emphatically that the ramp test overestimates FTP for everybody, and isn’t a great test and the end of it, no need for any discussion.
I’m a recipient of this personally. I mentioned my ramp test FTP and got told by multiple people that it’s wrong and basically laughed at for thinking my FTP was as high as the ramp test gave me. It came off as snobby and condescending IMO, like they were more evolved as a cyclist for not using the ramp test.
Again, ftp is not the most important thing in cycling. Firstly, none of us are pro’s. And for the very slim chances that any of us become pro’s, none will remain on TR’s plans.
Secondly, at the pro level, the riders have very similar ftp’s. Here’s a snide comment: Why not just cancel the race, do a ramp test, and crown the highest ftp for the flat stages, highest wpk for the mountain stage, fastest 5 sec power for the sprints. Because that’s silly. No race or group ride is steady. Not even a time trial. At that level, ftp is not the most important thing.
And at our level it isn’t either, and it should NOT be our main focus as cyclists. My focus is to be the very best cyclist that I can be, and to learn to utilize the EXACT same techniques that a TdF level pro would use in my own rides.
Gaining strength (ftp) and raising my wpk is just a part of that process. I would say it equals about 25% of what I need to do to become a better cyclist, and I would also argue than gaining fitness is the EASIEST part of becoming a better cyclist.
I would just ride every day right below my ftp and science says it would go up, and it would. I would also miss out on building the other skills required to win my rides.
Again, I repeat to those whom this applies as a cyclist: You are NOT your ftp. It does NOT define you as a cyclist.
If you define yourself as a cyclist by your FTP, you are just losing someone else’s ride instead of winning your own.
There’s actually no guarantee of that, even in a flat TT. Just look at some of the pocket-rocket female cyclists out there. Now throw in accelerations during bunch riding, the difficulty the larger rider would have with thermoregulation, etc., and it gets even closer. (Again, this is why successful cyclists even somewhere flat like the Netherlands come in all sizes.)
Yes, it is the most important thing. That’s why pros are pros, and also-rans are also-rans. (However, to then say that this means you just should ride right below FTP everyday is simply nonsensical.)
I never worried about “winning rides”, just winning races.
The purpose of it is to get an estimate of where your fitness is at so your plan can have appropriate difficulty.
IMO doing well on the ramp test means feeling like you gave it everything you had when you’re done. Do I set goals for what I want to hit?..Yes, but I recognize that I have to put in the work to achieve them and that the goals I set aren’t always realistic. I don’t feel like I get a good ramp test when I haven’t gotten enough sleep and/or eaten appropriately. That’s on me though. It’s ok to have a bad day. You can manually adjust your FTP if the workouts end up being too easy and I have done this several times. My experience has been that it’s still pretty close and sometimes it’s nice to have not quite as strenuous of a training block to avoid burnout.
If I had to guess, I would say that the ramp test inflates almost everyone’s FTP. If you really want to know what your “true” FTP is, buck up and go hit it for an hour. If you’re not willing to do that you must ask yourself if you’re scared.
There are no excuses to not do a 1 hour max effort. Be honest with yourself.
The ramp test is part marketing (lower barrier to entry) and science (it’s creates a probably good enough ball park FTP for the general pop), but it’s not perfect. I suppose that’s ok.
I fully endorse it as an ex racing cyclist and performing max h/r tests and other FTP tests i find the RAMP an excellent workout that bases it on fact and a full on 20 min one can be hard for people to face up to and pace accordingly , the RAMP as we know is only over a short duration when it gets tough and can be easily repeated even the next day.
Tonight i done one and after a lay off and following my schedule saw an increase to mine so now will continue to build on that and see what the next one will bring, its all about progression and RAMP works for me.
