Does anybody else have to be a little bit out of shape to get near their max HR?
That’s the area that is most trainable, the Lactate Threshold HR (LTHR), it sounds like its about 90% for you, for me its around 95% (185-186bpm). When I was doing time trials, I’d hold it around 92-93% for hours.
1 Like
What type of training do you do to get your lthr so high?
I was following an old type TrainerRoad Mid Volume Time Trialling plan at the time I was most fit. Mixed with strong group rides and TTs.
Before that I had been with coach so had a good base but a near death experience gave me the motivation to push harder for a while. The group rides were the coaches group still.
I recently hit my max or very close at the end of second all out 3min effort. At least for me when I get to about last 5 beats I can’t make sense of of the bike computer or numbers anymore and have to look at them after the ride.
I think somewhere I saw a protocol of multiple 3min efforts to measure your max heart rate.
When I came back after taking time off due to a hip replacement, my Max HR went up. I raised it on a forum and was told this was normal. I think it was due to the associated lowering in plasma volume.
Also the reduction in the LV volume when you stopped / reduced amount of aerobic exercise
Absolute HR values (ex: your LTHR) do not predict performance differences between different athletes. They are specific to your body.
My LTHR is in the 190s in my 40s, with a max a bit below 210. They’re both higher than most professional cyclists. And I am not a professional cyclist lol.
IOW, do not use someone else’s HR values as a personal training goal.
2 Likes
My current thinking is that LTHR is trainable (as % of max hr), in both direction (lowering or raising). It’s an equilibrium between your heart (the pump) and your vascular system (the pipe).
If you improve your heart (vo2max style training), it gets more efficient and beats slower while still pumping the same amount of blood (more blood per beat).
If you improve your capillaries (via sweetspot and threshold), you improve your piping and your body can use more bloodflow, raising the demand on the heart, making it beat faster (at higher equilibrium power).
If my LTHR/MHR is low, i can probably benefit more from sweetspot/threshold. If my LTHR/MR is high, it’s probably better to focus on vo2max (focusing more on hr than breathing).
Does it make sense?
1 Like
During first years of consistent training my lactate heart rate steadily went up. I always thought this was the reason no idea if it’s true.
Bring any health concerns to your Doc or specialist. He can see if your heart is really doing something troubling at those higher ranges.
I’m mid 50s and can see around 180 if I contest an XCO race finish. I used to see north of 200 a few decades ago. It takes a very high level of motivation to explore the upper limit.
For that race, I have a recorded max HR. What if I was getting an ablation and the cardiologist gave me a shot of adrenaline? Different max. What if I’m trying to outrun a cocaine bear? Another different max. So I don’t consider a max to be a hard number.
Everyone is different, and it decreases with age generally. Sure, it’s one of the reasons VO2 max decreases with age. If training could keep you from getting older, it would have done it for someone already.
Respectfully, I would say no.
The problem is you have no idea what “low” or “high” is because this is all unique to your body. So you have no idea what number to compare to.
My completely untrained LTHR back in the day was already higher than many professional cyclists cyclists, because that’s just the way I am. That was when my FTP was under 200w. There is no way I had better “capillarization” than a professional athlete, when I was coming off the couch of being sedentary. The optimal training at that point? Just making a habit of riding my bike regularly.
Your LTHR will slowly increase over time, that is true though.
I would not use LTHR or max HR numbers to guide training decisions. It’s not a thing, and it doesn’t make sense in the first place due to the high variability between people and complete lack of correlation with performance.
It’s as a percentage. Two persons could have the same percentage, but one at 200w ftp, the other one at 350w ftp. It also doesn’t mean that a higher or lower percentage would be better, it’s just to help see where you are in term of heart vs vascular system.
You are at 190/210=90%. I have no idea of your training.
Hlab was at 95% after doing TT specialty, so lots of sweetspot/threshold.
I am around 88% after my VO2 block.
It could probably be linked to fractional utilization that some people use to guide their training.
Could other people give their percentage, especially those doing a lot of vo2max and those doing a lot of sweetspot/threshold ? I’m curious to see if there is a strong correlation.
Edit: And yes, there are certainly variation by people. Somebody could have more predisposition to a low (or high) percentage vs somebody else, requiring less specific training to keep the percentage low (or high).
Understood. I thought you were using the slash grammatically, not mathematically 
So then yes, what you describe is pretty reasonable and something that has construct validity and many people talk about doing.
For myself personally… I’m not convinced it worked this way for me. I’ve always had better 5min power than 20-60min power. As I got further into my training career though, my LTHR was a much higher percentage of my max (despite doing relatively little threshold/SS work - like ever)… but my 20-60min power as a percent of 5min power never changed much. N of 1 obviously.
I suspect that’s more about being able to tolerate such high percentages for extended periods. Some of it may be physical, but I suspect much of it is mental.
Personally I don’t think many of us know our true LTHR as we don’t ride at threshold till we reach exhaustion like you would in a TT.
My LTHR if you take it from a 20 min test has never really moved as a percentage of max HR, but my power has.
It’s nice getting all of the notifications that this thread is useful for people.
A recent update for me, my HR doesn’t appear to be lowering just yet. I’ve started doing some Zwift racing again recently and my threshold HR has increased this week to 189bpm (I got this update from intervals.icu), after a race with 20mins at 193. I think this is the first time I’ve come off the bike feeling slightly dizzy and like it was a bit too much. Was close to vomiting. I know this all shows that it was a very hard workout and something to undertake rarely - but it was good to know I could keep up with the Cat A riders in Zwift, even if they dropped me 500m before the end.
Feeling fine today. Had a good sleep with a lower HRV and higher resting HR, all to be expected. Hoping that will settle down after last night and a Zone 2 ride later today. I still think about my HR a fair amount, but knowing that others out there have similar HR and experience gives me a lot of confidence that I’m okay and that it’s more normal than we would otherwise be led to believe.