Couldn’t agree more. And the same thing can be said for the SS and threshold threads for me. (Although now I’m a little scared about my upcoming V02 block, because it is going to be drastically different then anything I’ve done before :))
@Pbase thanks; you were right. I thought I was asking a direct question, about a single comment, but went back and re-read the entire thread, and it all now makes sense… and yes… .I learned an absolute metric F-ton. Yowza.
Totally new VO2 WO strategy for me, going fwd!! Thanks, all!
Right? I felt like I had been doing it wrong my whole life. Nice to learn something new. And it works too.
Glad you got it figured out, hopefully got your prior questions answered along the way.
There are a few good threads already mentioned that dive deep into some really effective training methods. Here are a few off the top of my head:
Sweet Spot Progression
Threshold Progression
Hard Start VO2max intervals
The SST progression is LONG, but really, really good. The Hard Start VO2max interval thread is kind of the OG VO2 thread that goes into a lot of the same stuff we’ve covered here, but in probably (painfully) more excruciating detail.
Those are among the many informative threads here, including some I’m not very active in but go through periodically because I learn a lot even if I don’t necessarily agree or use them in my training/coaching (the ISM training model thread, Lactate testing, Pro Training, among others).
There’s some great advice in this thread, thanks!
I’ve just finished my SST progression with 5x20 @ 95% and looking to do a 3 week VO2 block next week. Planning 2 VO2 workouts a week.
When this block ends it’s 3 weeks left till my A event (Amsteld Gold Race tour version). Do you guys have any advice on what to do those last weeks? Maybe 2 weeks threshold or something? Would this VO2 block be soon enough to see the benefits at the event? I read it takes some time to see the benefits of a VO2 block.
Typically 2-6 weeks or maybe a little more.
I usually give threshold after VO2, but in your case you’d benefit more from race specific training, whatever that looks like for that event. With essentially six weeks left to your A event, you’d probably be best off focusing your training on what you specifically need for the event.
Awesome, thanks.
Events is mostly lots of VO2 efforts up 2-6 minute climbs with z2 in between. So guessing maybe I could extend the block, depending how I feel. As a somewhat older individual (just over 40) I need a bit more recovery.
Rather than focus on VO2max, just work on that power duration. (In other words, I wouldn’t worry about doing high cadence stuff necessarily). Just put the watts down. Given it’s that kind of event, you’re probably going to spend quite a bit of time around tempo, so you could do tempo/SST one day and MAP (2-6 min) intervals the other day alongside your volume.
Hmmm, hadn’t thought about it like that. That’s actually great advice as it would also lower the risk of me burning out. Gonna go that route and save the VO2 block for later in the year to build up my FTP in preparation for a trip to the French Alps.
Thanks a lot!
@kurt.braeckel thank you again, very much, for your time to reply, both above, and here. I will be reading all of these three threads, taking notes, and modifying as needed. Very sincerely appreciated. 
I just finished up a VO2 Max block about 2 weeks ago and it was quite different than what I’ve done in TR so just sharing.
Week 1: 5 x 3’ with 6 minutes rest then 4 x 4’ with 6 minutes rest.
Week 2: 4 x 4’ with longer 8 minute rest with coach’s recommendation, 3 x 5’ with 10’ rest.
Week 3: 3 x 5’ with 8 minutes rest twice, but coach said I could’ve taken shorter 6 minute rest or longer if needed.
These were extremely painful in the beginning and became manageable during the last week although I still put 100% into them. I have noticed during the 3rd week that HR has come down a bit during endurance rides. Before and after this block I had complete 3 x 10 threshold and in the post VO2 Block workout, power was up 6 - 8 watts and HR down about 6 bpm, so a noticeable improvement. I think I’ll still see some benefits as time goes on.
A couple of takeaways and things I learned is that the benefit of longer rest periods allowed me to execute the efforts to get the intended stimulus which was the high HR, high rate of breathing, and high cadence throughout the intervals. All in all, while the sessions were brutal, aside from one tempo session in the first week, everything else was just endurance riding so I never felt cooked which was great. I still had some eagerness to get out and put some hours in the saddle between these workouts. Doing 3 of these a week would be a different type of crazy and I would probably have to cut down on the endurance riding quite a bit to compensate for getting more recovery.
Planning my first VO2 block 2 weeks from today.
Going to start with twice a week, 6 x 3’ plus a bunch of zone 2. If weather is crap on one of the weekend days and I feel good, I’ll try a third vo2 day.
Regarding training for a race that is tempo with VO2 bursts:
In my running days we did a workout called “The Michigan.” (Think of the workout Adams but instead of recovery pace you are maintaining 80-85% FTP for 5-7 min. It hurt the first time (bad…especially the second hard rep) but eventually, after a few tries, it hurt less. This isn’t an “all out” VO2 effort but rather a sustained effort that trains you to “recover” at tempo. Really helped my 10 mile & 1/2 marathon races.
My running days are behind me (mostly) so I made a TR custom workout that simulates what we did on the track. It doesn’t convert over exactly (cycling and running are different obviously) but it has helped me in XCO races where you are essentially on the whole race).
Nice! Sounds like a good plan!
Not sure if this has been talked about too much in this thread but the extra Z2 is key. Keeping your volume up through the block will bolster the gains. Just remember, and I had to keep reminding myself, that the riding time is more important than the watts. So don’t go out on Z2 rides looking to ride at a target. It’ll just leave you too tired for your next VO2. I think I was doing most of my Z2 around 60% FTP and that felt about right.
Yea, that aligns pretty closely with me too. 60% is about the top end of ‘easy’ for me.
I’m planning on just doing my normal 55mile group rides saturday and sunday, and dropping myself about a mile after the start, showing up late to the coffee stop, slamming an espresso, then dropping myself a mile after on the way back lol
So I’ve read the entire thread thrice now, and dug into some side resources. Have absorbed & accepted the info, and thus entirely re-jigged my VO2 strategy, and wanted to ask one specific Q:
I have an A Event Jun 9, and am hitting Rest Wk 1 of Sust. Pow Build next wk, then 2nd 3 wks of SPB, Rest Wk 2, then into 8 wk 40K TT that ends & tapers right into my A.
I’ve read here & else that VO2 is best done / fits well into Build phase. So was going to drop 2nd half of SPB and do a 3 wk VO2; fits perfectly! And think will do me tons of good, LT.
As reco’d, going to run in std. mode, not erg, and go as hard all-out as I can sustain, for 3 mins, starting at 4 x 3s.
My Q is: I’ve heard [and experienced] it takes a while for the legs & heart to ‘spool up’. I was considering using Luftee, and using the 1st min as a ramp up, to full power for the 3 mins… so I get full 3 mins TiZ.
Or no, just use Spencer, 5 x 3m @ 120%, go full blast for the full 3 mins, no ramp up, and just let the leg & HR chips fall where they do ?
[I am not an idiot. I know damn well I will not hit 2 - 4 mins @ 120+ the first couple times, esp bc it’s my first time going no-erg & full gas. That is, I guess, the point of no-erg; I plan to just go full gas, whatever I can hold for 3-ish mins. I’m also going to absolutely maxxx each interval, and let the power fall naturally through the set, if it must. But try to hold the level, close as poss, through each interval. Although recently succeeded @ Emerald; 6 x 2min @ 120%.]
I’ve come to the similar conclusion reading the entire thread as you have. I’ve never tried V02 without ERG and was concerned going in. Furthermore, I hadn’t done any intensity over SS since Nov 2023. So as an introduction into V02 starting my Base 3, I tried my first V02 in Resistance mode. I surprised myself not only during the interval, but I was actually pushing more watts in the last interval than the first. From my experience I just went off RPE focusing on breathing and leg speed. I fully expected the power to eventually drop, it just never did and was surprised I was able to hold on.
See Hard start VO2 max intervals team workouts and corresponding topic Hard start VO2max intervals
All I got to say is hoolyyyyyyy cow, and a massive thanks to those who contributed above. I feel like after a couple years of “doing VO2s”, I just did my first real VO2!!! 
Super jacked about it!!!
As recommended by some above, tried 4 x 4s, all out on each interval, trying my best to hold it steady for the whole int, and going lower each int if / as I needed to.
So switched to Standard mode, killed ERG, and used Luftee, but only as a timer / WO structure guide. Power goals were all mine.
And holy cr@p, it was sooooo fricken’ FUN, felt amazing, and I got some fantastic results!
While my power holding was garb, that’s just bc my VO2 stamina is garb rn. But after my first slop-show interval, I got 3 near perfect ints w just over 3 mins TIZ each!!! [My abs. max bike HR is 160 - 168 ish.]
It was super fun, bc instead of just “holding on for dear life, to survive what the machine was doing to me”, I was doing the interval!! It felt fantastic. And bc I could let the power drop as I fatigued across the set, I was able to grab 3 x 3 mins TIZ, instead of just melt and crash. Or have 0, or only 1 - 2 mins TIZ in int 1.
[Bc I know my current stamina is garb, I used the first 60 s of each 4 min as a fast ramp up. That is what I can currently do. I plan to get rid of this as soon as I can.]
Super excited about this massive change in my training, and where this road may take me!! Again, deep and sincere thanks to all, esp a couple in particular that I won’t @, bc I don’t want you being hounded for more info! 
EDIT: Ok, I’m absolutely in love w these WOs.
Two biggest reasons they are so great:
1: Bc you’re going all out, for what you can do that day, they’re perfectly tailored to you. This means you are never “too tired” to do a VO2, and I don’t have to be “scared” of them / intimidated anymore. In the past, I have skipped quite a few VO2s, due to sleep deprivation, general fatigue, energy spent on hiking, etc. I knew I couldn’t do what the system was going to force me to do, so I had to skip it. Now I never have to skip one!!! <3
2: …and this is the best one… bc you’re doing the max you can do… if you blow up on an int… you can still finish the WO, and GET the rest of the TIZ from that WO!!! You don’t have to stop, bc you can’t do anymore!!!
Just did my second; interesting comparison w first, just days ago. For this one I was pretty destroyed fatigued from sleep deprivation. But knew from previous to set a lower goal for the 1st int.
And I nailed the 1st int! Thrilled w it. However, too thrilled, and bit off way more than I could chew on 2; tried to do the same. Blew up. So I just dialed it back early, did the recovery, set a lower target for 3, and got around 2:30 TIZ!!! And on 4, I was able to squeeze out 2:50 TIZ!!!
This is… freaking fantastic news. SUCH a leap forward in the quality of my training… and the consistency: not having to skip. Tired? Yep, your W numbers will probably be $#ite, but you can do it, and you will get your system maxxxed out, for that TIZ.
I’m over the moon!!!
Obviously I’m super beginner, and the goal is to do a way better job of holding those power targets more consistent through the ints, but I strongly believe that will come, in time… and much faster, doing these properly now, than skipping, killing yourself too much and then being over-fatigued, etc.
2nd WO:
don’t overanalyze, sometimes it doesn’t goes as planned. Here are my last 3-min jobbers
Intervals 3 and 4 I mentally quit.
Interval #5 had 2 hard right turns at traffic lights.
Bonus interval #1 was a 1 mile stretch at average speed of 26mph so it turned out to be 0:02:10 instead of 0:03:00. So I tossed in another minute jobber after dealing with a couple intersections.
WKO awarded me 14 minutes above 90% relative vo2max. Ugly but I got my time in.