Oh, I know. I upload everything to Strava and see the miles there, but I’d like to see them tick by in real time on TR.
Close your eyes for this reply then
I used to have cliff bars on the bike, but it got just too expensive. I can buy 10 stroopwaffels for the price of 1 cliffbar.
Looking at the labels (energy wise) two waffles make about one cliffbar. Although cliffbar is lower in fats and will mostly likely be cleaner in terms of less added stuff than the waffles.
I actually opt now for sea salted caramel stroopwaffels, the original ones are too sweet for me on the bike
Or as I like to say “outside intervals lead to much more power data fluctuation than high flywheel speed” (Kickr 2017 direct drive)
This reminds me of a few other takeaways from last years Big vs Small Chainring thread:
- trainer with low flywheel has almost “flat power” when compared to outside
- to my legs, inside low flywheel feels unnatural
- no evidence that “smooth power” leads to better training adaptations
- I like riding my bike outside and don’t understand using low flywheel speed on inside rides to keep power (unnaturally) smooth
Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, partly. I did it spurred by the resurgence of the ERG vs RES discussion, and my general interest in learning more about how this all works.
I had that in mind during the warm up, and hatched it in the very moment. Figured out the RES setting that allowed the same gearing to match my ERG cadence to try and match variables reasonably close.
Then after the first interval, I realized I could do double duty to see what flywheel speed would do. This was all very quick and in the moment, but I tried to balance things like flywheel speed, cadence and my usual standing breaks as evenly as I could.
Finding the right RES setting to hit the gearing was a challenge and messed up the start of some intervals, but the last half of each set is pretty dialed for off the cuff implementation.
I am just playing with variables in a pseudo-attempt to control them and see the impact.
Sure possible to see the variability in power data via flywheel speed changes. I should load a real power meter on for some of these workouts to see what it picks up vs the trainer. We have seen some interesting data reported from Shane and Tariq, that show deviation from “real” power as the speeds increase. No idea if it’s a problem with my Kickr17, but it follows the trend we see in the other trainers (Neo, Hammer).
- I would guess that is true for flat road and dealing with variable wind. I wonder about things like longer and mild climbs, if those tend to be more stable? I’d need to filter through some ride data from last year. I have a several hour climb with sustained pitches in the 3-5% range, but wind can be an issue there too.
- Yeah, always interesting.
- I am trying to determine that for me. I do a fair bit of gravel and MTB riding, and I am a light road rider (66kg), so I think I have a lower overall inertia in my outside riding than some larger riders, or ones that ride mainly smooth road.
- This is one of those things that is likely to vary with all the rider type, and possibly trainer variation (flywheel effectiveness in particular).
- Agreed. It would be need to see studies with real control evaluation. I doubt it would make much difference unless you end up with large percentage devaition, while holding to an identical average.
- Wattage swings around 5% or less (totally wild guess) are probably non-issues and lead to the same as a steady load.
- I wonder where it could lead to issues if you had larger differences? Coupled with that would be the timing of those swings, along with the magnitude. At some point, it could lead to at least more rider fatigue, even if the resulting strain and adaptations matched.
- But with this workout, I doubt I would see any differences.
My goal in low flywheel speed was never about “smooth” graphs for flat power. As seen above, I nailed some of the RES mode sections with less deviation than the ERG versions. I can do the same anytime I am willing to devote the attention to do so.
But I like the partial freedom of ERG to not pay attention to that degree all the time, and still get a reasonable deviation that I trust is getting me the stress I need.
For me, it is an attempt to mimic my outdoor riding conditions more closely. As mentioned, I believe I am a low inertia ride for a couple of reasons. As such, I try to train with that in mind.
I do mix in high and low speed work, depending on the time of year, events on the horizon and in attempt to keep my body guessing a bit.
All that said, it would be awesome if trainer makers would provide the data so we could compare a given gearing / flywheel speed to our own body weight, and potentially a range of road pitches (0% to 20% in 2% steps), so we could more accurately consider what is the closest for our needds.
Right now, I am guessing and going on some rough assumptions about what it “feels” like.
Having said that, and considering I started my ERG life in the big ring, I found some serious issues with super steep and long climbs. After hearing Jonathan and Nate discuss the whole inertia thing, I did a ton of playing at the time (CycleOps PowerBeam Pro initially, then the Hammer) to see what the range of gearing felt like.
I settled on the lower gearing (small ring, mid-cassette) and have had much better luck with the punchy steep stuff, as well as the longer gravel grinder climbs that we have around here.
And I am still happy with my flow and speed on the road stuff, especially with my Duathlon bike legs, that I can seem to really nail in the last 2-3 years since using low speed more often. I’d guess I am a 75% low, 25% high flywheel speed in the mix of my training.
I like it fast sometimes too. The RPE and even HR were likely lower in the last 2 intervals. I should have had more fatigue at those points and likely see a higher HR in similar efforts with just low speed. But I suspect finishing with that “helped”.
I plan to try and test that by starting in high speed in future tests, and finish with low speed.
All in all, no concrete conclusions, but some things that may be shedding a light on things I can leverage for my needs. Just figured it might be interesting for others too
I’ve posted “smooth power” outdoor rides on both flat and climbs in this post on the Big vs Little Chainring thread
Love that post. Somehow I missed it originally.
And overall, I do expect just about any outside activity is bound to be more variable. Potential influences from wind, road conditions and such are going to lead to those peaks and valleys.
My second successful over and under workout. This right out of bed with a couple of gels and a bottle of HEED. On a borrowed trainer.
Save my Stroopwaffles from United flights to use later on bike rides. My wife is forbidden from buying them for me. Pro Tip – United also has amazing Albanese gummy bears on international flights (as opposed to Haribo).
OK, with sugar / carbs out of the way, today was a nice solid 1 x 60 min +/- VT1. Still boring. Not as easy as it sounds.
Still adjusting to the increased demands of SSBMV2. Yesterday’s threshold workout “Donner” got me. I was blowing up about halfway through the 2nd interval and had to dial it down by 5%, but was able to complete it after that.
Tonight did “Clark”. Glad I can still manage my sweet spot workouts but just barely. The stomps in this one were kind of fun though, until I realized how hard it is to recover by settling back into sweet spot. Felt super productive though, looking forward to taking it super easy tomorrow.
Leconte today, notched down a few % to reflect FTP as it exists, not as I wish it to be… last hard one of SSB2 LV. Actually, quite happy with this as I’ve been digging myself out of a hole of overreaching, and this week was the first real signs of getting out. Oddly, the fade at the end wasn’t heart rate, leg burn, or gasping breath - it was just gradually loss of contractility - couldn’t keep any cadence going.
This was also the last leg of a working professional’s one-day stage race. By that I mean:
- Having to get up 2.5 hours earlier than usual for an atypical work day
- Driving 3 hours to a field site
- Hiking four hours over rough rocky terrain, which I very rarely do, getting pummeled with technical questions from co-workers and colleagues
- Driving back for 3 hours
My pit crew for the day was 1) caffeine - can’t usually tolerate it, but once a month or so is okay 2) about 30 minutes of time lying down in alpha-wave state, not sleeping though 3) a new pair of bibs that landed in the mail today and 4) re-watching my football team win a playoff game.
Looking forward to the down week…!
2+ hours of endurance via Laurentian for me followed by an 8-mile brick run at a 7:28 pace. The TR triathlon plan is tough but it’s whipping me into shape.
That’ll be ‘final push syndrome’, I find this often when I’m absolutely hanging but just because it’s the last interval my head gets a rush of enthusiasm and my legs follow suit, lol!
Definitely one of those days where the numbers are all in the green but it’s just HARD for some reason. Oh well, ticking the boxes.
My usual Saturday group ride. Although it didn’t feel so intense at the time, I also got a sprinkling of some new HR Peaks
Last spin before I hop on a plane and head for the white stuff.
Hope everyone has a great week of training. I’m looking forward to my break
Junction (yesterday, not today). I was worried about this one. Work and life in general meant I’d barely eaten or hydrated all day and just sat at a desk. With the resulting achey legs and feeling under-fuelled, I was reluctant to even start it. The warm up felt terrible, even just the 200W step felt tough…
…but I persevered and all was well. Hard, but doable.
Booked via Narco Travel