What is the real problem with TR / Wahoo? [Adaptive Training]

Yep 16 months ago! Not a beta…a new product! Raved and raved about by the TR team! Except that it only works on desktop app! I wonder the % of users that use a desktop compared to tablet/phone app users!?
And now it’s very rarely mentioned, still no mobile app support. Just brushed under the carpet and forgotten about.

I have a feeling you missed the sarcasm in my post.

The fact that Group Workouts was out at all was only down to the pandemic. Everyone was at home so they rushed it out taking advantage of a situation that was completely out of their control, hence the lack of Beta. As they have mentioned many times this was Thing 2 and AT was Thing 1. It was always meant to come out second in their timeline but they were adaptable enough to get SOMETHING out at short notice.

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I see, yes I did indeed miss that!:grinning:

Figured I’d add my comments to this thread after successfully completing Tacu, which is 12X2min @128% FTP and the last VO2 workout at the end of polarised build. Safe to say I’m pretty stoked to have completed this last night, but also completed this using my Wahoo head unit and outside! Of course I’m disappointed that my VO2 progression levels says 2.5 despite this being a level 9.0. But my goal was to treat this like an outdoor almost standing start CX effort as it replicated the starts really well.

I think the takeaway for me is that despite being on AT and using a Wahoo outside (UK rider) I am just focussed on sticking to the plan. Yeah, it’s difficult to not have certain features. But workout completion is the goal, progression levels would be a bonus. When progression levels updates work then it’ll be great, but I’m currently enjoying the other features on AT right now and issues will be ironed out in due course - which going on Ask a Cycling Coach Pod 317 isn’t that far away.

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I like the apple iOS analogy overall - but the difference is their intervals are tight and met and the % of features promised/delivered is higher. So I totally can agree with you - the analogy works - but the timing here is different and that’s where most people are bumed.

iOS upgrade previewed at WWDC, Beta comes out right around new phone announcement, released with release of the new phone or right around the heels of it.

In terms of your bike performance - it made me just question a few things. Please - not attacking or challenging you - just wondering if you’ve ever used a human coach, or trained without TR?

Personally I got better training/results with a human coach years ago, and haven’t reached the same point just using TR. But I’m chalking that up to all the other variables (mostly life) and not the software. My indoor/outdoor mix was the same with human coach vs. TR only.

I am hopeful AT will make TR better for me, and get me closer - but I doubt it would get me as good as a human coach

50,000 foot view here, starting six years ago with HIIT spin classes:

Peak fitness so far was before TR, self-coaching using principles from Time Crunched Cyclist book on average of about 7 hours/week.

Just wrapping up my first year with a coach and very happy with results, this year was about building a foundation but still ended up with some positive performance surprises.

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I think for most of us wahoo users who PAY for an annual subscription this should have been worked out PRIOR to releasing anything. I know many feel the same. I just stick to the old plan, like staying with an older Mac OS when they can’t get apps updated to work with the newer version. It is just part of how software works or doesn’t. TR just needs to be more realistic about what they offer before releasing the latest greatest.

Well, It’s not released, its in beta test… I’d venture that users need to be more realistic as to what testing a beta product actually is…

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TrainNow is not in beta. AT is in beta. TN utilizes parts of AT, but TN is a fully released product.

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So I guess I’m still confused where we’re at as Wahoo users? I thought Nate said we’d automatically get credit if we completed an outdoor workout with the Wahoo? I’ve done a couple and it’s had no effect on my progression levels. Are we just waiting for the full fix, where AT can analyze all outside rides, even unstructured, for progression level updates?

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Thanks for sharing. Our paths were not too different but I did coach before TR. Which frankly has helped me do my own AT after learning what works with him and what didn’t.

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I used to promote bike races (CX and Track, including state champs and multiple season long series). I learned right away you cannot make 3 bike racers happy at the same time.

This holds true with cycling software the same as races.

That’s my understanding. And as a result, analysis of outdoor structured workouts on Wahoo will not be supported when AT is released as it’s not seen as a sufficient priority to close before releasing AT (believe this was stated in podcast) and tying it to figuring out all outdoor workouts means a much bigger problem has to be solved before it ever is released.

So when AT is out of beta, like TN, it will be another feature that does not function for the huge number of people doing outdoor workouts on Wahoo. A huge disappointment for sure.

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Absolutely right. And why exactly can’t I use TrainNow with my bolt?
Honest question.

You couldn’t use TN, schedule the workout, push to wahoo bolt and execute it?

Ouch, is that right? Every impression I’ve gotten from the AT-threads is “it’s in progress, and we know it’s important”. I haven’t listened to last weeks podcast yet, so maybe it came up there.

What do you mean? To do ANY workout outdoors, you need to schedule it on the calendar and push it to the head unit.

You can’t “use TrainNow” with your Garmin either by this logic.

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What Nate specifically said was, AT is working fine and offering benefits for people doing indoor workouts and they want to get that released ASAP.

He also said they are working on a fix to look at any power trace from any source (which is orders of magnitude more powerful IMO), but that the timescale for this was a little uncertain (he said between a week and a year in a post on here…). Apparently they have something in testing.

I would have thought they could get part way there by assessing them like custom workouts, but the assessment of custom workouts is pretty inconsistent anyway.

???

Works here. I just scheduled the TrainNow workout as outdoor. That will sync to your head unit.

My bad as I‘m not a native speaker….
What I meant was: „but I can use TN with my bolt, can’t I. So where’s the problem?“

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