Cheers, dude! thanks
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First off, everyone is different and weight loss is not as easy as simple calorie deficit for some individuals. This is especially true for endurance athletes pushing our limits.
In the beginning, I set my profile to sedentary with a 1-lb a week loss target and had Strava upload my calorie from my rides/training. Nothing happened. In fact, I would gain and lose back and forth, but never trend downward. I also began seeing issues in fueling my workouts in MVSSB1. So went back and adjusted the 1-lb a week to maintenance instead to see how I felt for fueling first. Plan was to adjust once I felt my fueling was adequate. I felt better and was properly fueled to nail the workouts again. Strangely enough, weight started trending down too! Towards the end of MVSSB2, I changed my profile to lightly active since I felt fueling for workouts was starting to take a dip. Weight is continuing to trend downward slowly and I am hitting my workouts.
For me, I really believe it was a coritsol issue with trying to lose too much too fast while taxing the body for workouts. The calculation of a calorie is not exactly fool-proof science. Simple calorie deficit will work great for someone that minimally works out or not at all. As endurance athletes, we ask way more of our bodies. My body was panicing with the deficit and workouts at the same time. Also - highly recommend The Endurance Diet. Quality of calories do matter, and I believe The Endurance Diet is instrumental in allowing me to eat more calories and continue losing weight while fueling work outs. MFP is just a tool to keep me from over-eating.
What I do now is even easier. I picked up a Polar Vantage M and let the Polar Flow app control MFP with my all day activity including my workouts. I then eat to maintenance in MFP and sometimes add an additional 200 calories in good carbs for dinner if I have an extra hard workout the next morning. Weight continues to trend downward and I am nailing my MVSPB workouts.
Anyway, I would recommend you nail your fueling for workouts first and not worry about weight loss for a couple weeks. See what happens - you may be surprised to start losing. If not and you are hitting the workouts, slowly reduce calories - like no more than 200 a day to see how you feel on the bike. Anything more and you will risk a cortisol push back from a stress perspective not allowing weight loss.
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Interesting. Were your counting and weighing all your food, weighing yourself daily and using a power meter to calculate calories burned?
We do, but the basic way in which energy is stored and burned remains largely the same for an athlete vs a sedentary person. The difference is athletes eat and burn more. I don’t think asking more of ourselves undermines how calories work.
HR based calorie estimations are not well known for their accuracy. It works for you, and that’s great, but suggesting this as a superior solution to PROPER tracking of calories burned and consumed is incorrect.
Sorry, I should have included the below information in original post. All my calorie burn from workouts comes from my either Cyclops Hammer PM or my P2M PM on my bike. I count all my calories and weigh all my food except for the occasional cheat meal that I have to rely on the restaurant nutrional facts instead. I have a Withings smart scale and weigh myself daily. I don’t really pay attention to daily measurments, but look at 2 week trends.
Totally agree with you that energy burn of calories is largely the same between athlete and sedentary person. I am just saying to not forget about how the stress hormones effect the speed of weight loss side (coritsol\adrenals\etc.) If weight loss is someones strictly only goal, then they won’t care about failing the workouts, or the amount of calorie deficit per day assuming they can hold it long enough. I will guess that most here don’t just want to lose weight though, but perform their best at the same time hitting their workouts to get faster. There is a point where something has to give from a stress standpoint. Our bodies are remarkable creatures that move and adapt based upon what we throw at it. If you reduce calories enough consistently, you will lose weight eventually regardless of stress hormones, but you may not have what you need to fuel the workouts. What I believe worked for me is finding a sweet spot between calories and stress level as I pushed my body more. In the process the weight is coming off consistently and I am still able to hit the workouts.
I can see where you woudl have that assumption since I failed to include that the Vantage M is connected to my power meters and chest HRM. MFP still controls my base calories. All Polor Flow does is add my calorie burn from PM tracked workouts and makes a couple hundred calorie tweaks here and there if needed based upon my activity for the day. If I am sitting around more than usual, it will prob subtract a couple hundred calories for the day. Same goes the other way if I am on my feet more in a day. Hope that helps clear it up. I had not intention to say that HR based calorie calculation is accurate or the way to go.
@onemanpeloton Thanks for the call outs and I hope we are more in agreement now. I should have included more information in my original post. My main point is that sometimes the answer is not as black and white as we expect it to be.
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Great answers and thanks for replying!
I’m quite skeptical of people who dont agree with calories-in-calories-out so its super interesting to hear from people like yourself who disagree with me and are measuring properly!
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Very good post with great info, thank you for sharing. I’ve definitely been in the position where I was eating far too little for the riding I was doing & had to add calories to lose weight. I’m currently weighing in weekly but should probably get back to daily to get a better idea of the trend as I use Happy Scale to keep an eye on that. I actually just found an old weight/body fat log from 2014 when I was measuring daily & using Fitzgerald’s Racing Weight quick start guide. I’ve been paying attention to DQS since then & eat quite well.
Last night I had a horrible workout (Geiger +2) that I attribute to a combo of under fueling, a few nights poor sleep & some work stress from travel/ongoing important projects I’m managing. I was absolutely shot at the end of it. Looking forward to today’s podcast as they are going to touch on fueling shorter workouts.
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Glad we can still be friends! 
What is crazy is that a few months ago I was totally in the same boat of calories-in-calories-out as well. And I would still tell everyone to start there first no matter what. It wasn’t until I had my own issues losing weight while cutting calories and I finally said screw - I would rather hit my workouts and increase my performance to make up for the weight. After I started fueling enough to crush my workouts, then my weight started moving! I was shocked because it did not make sense to me. My wife kept telling me it was a hormone thing and that my body was not stressed which started moving the needle. Did some research and found more information on the stress hormone/weight loss or gain connection. Right now, that is the only way I can explain it for me. Also, you might hit today’s podcast. They touch on calorie deficit vs proper fueling.
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Interesting discussion. I’m a firm believer in CICO. I track everything with Cronometer and am currently running a deficit of about 250 Cal per day. I feel like I’m fueling just enough to get through my training volume of 10 - 12 hrs per week. I seem to have hit a wall as far as fat loss is concerned and I know if I reduce my calorie intake anymore, I’ll start failing workouts. I feel hungry quite often, but I’ve found the balance that I don’t ever have to binge due to extreme hunger. I do often wonder if i slightly increase my calorie intake it will help me shift the last bit of body fat and maybe improve my performance. I should probably obsess about food a little bit less 
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I’m also firmly in the Calories in versus Calories out school, because science! I do think it gets more nuanced than a calorie is a calorie for body composition, but in terms of weight loss, that’s what the science supports.
TDEE calculations are always something of a estimate, as are calories burned (even with a power meter). Heart Rate based, a lot depends on accurate zones being set up - I lost as expected with Garmin HRM based estimates alongside my power meter workouts and rides.
In my experience of seeing people “failing” to lose weight calorie counting, it’s usually because they’re not tracking food accurately and/ or honestly. Especially really underestimating cheat days/ meals.
Yeah, the science thing is what does it for me too 
I never actually have any cheat days and i’m pretty consistent with what I eat every day. I’m currently ca. 10%BF and trying to get down to around 8%BF by April. The last % of fat just shifts so slowly once you get down to single digits…
We can definitely still be friends
I would be really interested to know more about your experiences, so much as you understand at least. Would you summarise it by saying that you were losing weight whilst simultaneously being in a calorie surplus?
Genuinely interested to learn more about this.
Yeah, I was tihnking about this topic whilst listening to the podcast yesterday!
Great reminder…I think this is often and largely over looked. I also agree that changes need to be made slowly and consistently,and results will come.
It is indeed mandatory to fuel enough and with high quality food to gain results and optimal weight and more importantly body composition.
I really think I was still in a a deficit actually and the apps and website were just wrong for me. Let me explain. After thinking about this a little more and doing some research - I think we can all agree with calories-in-calories-out. The problem is new research and evidence that is supporting that scientist need to go back to the drawing board when it comes to calorie calculation of a food. I have read several articles where the data doesn’t add up like they thought on how a calorie is burned; or when you compare say a 100 calories of a processed food group vs a 100 calories of a whole food group. The body simple does not burn/use processes/whole food the same. I even read how different it can be between each person concluding that we are unique in how we burn the calories, and people change based upon their health and fitness.
Bottom line - find what works for your and don’t blindly take what any app or website tells you is the correct calories you need or deficit you need. Use the apps and website as a starting point for RMR and go with their suggestions are first to see if it works. It will probably work for most. If it doesn’t work, start experimenting to see what works for you. I am seeing with me I can eat more whole food calories and lose weight slowly vs eating the same number of calories in processed sugary food and then stop losing/gain weight. I would need a more sever deficit to lose weight with processed/sugary foods is what I believe. It is still calories-in-calories-out, but you might need to experiment with what type of calories are we talking? whole foods or processed sugary crap? No doubt - some can eat crap processed calories and still lose if at enough of a deficit, but I doubt they can perform because the deficit would be too severe to maintain performance. I would rather focus on whole foods and performance and let the body composition take care of itself. In the end, when your performance goes up, it becomes very difficult to get enough whole food calories anyway to not lose a little weight slowly.
Yeah, I was in a similar position. I thought I was hitting my workouts fine, but the weight just stopped moving at about 10-11% BF. I decided performance was more important, so I quit focusing on a deficit. I started focusing on trying to match my expenditure as best I could. Suddenly found another level in my workouts I didn’t know was missing. Couple weeks later, weight started moving down again! I was like no way! Now I match or surplus my calories based upon where I am at in workouts. For instance I will eat an extra 200 calories the day before a VO2 max workout or a 4 hour out door ride. Days that are at or below threshold or less than hour, I will try to match calories as best I can. Shifting the last bit of weight off me this way seems to be working. I would have never found it though had I kept chasing calories rather than performance.
I would suggest trying something similar for a couple weeks and see how it goes. I bet you see a difference either in the workout or weight loss or both. Worst that can happen is that you gain a pound or two which would not be hard to get rid of. Just my thoughts.
Yeah, I think we need to evaluate our goals and remember things can change in our journey. We are all different and many times what used to work quits working because something shift in us or our bodies just got used to the stimuli. Almost like training - you can’t do the same thing forever and expect your performance to keep increasing. Have to change it up. For me, I could handle a deficit of 500 calories according to apps/websites fine until I got down to about 10/11% BF. Problem was that I started to struggle more in my workouts and the weight seemed to stop trending down at all. I more a less gave up on losing any more and changed my focus to fueling workouts and making it up with gaining FTP. Didn’t realize it was the change needed for my weight to start trending down again. My thoughts are that once I got down to a low enough BF%, the current calorie deficit was too severe and started stressing my body while hurting performance. Even 200 calorie deficit was too much for me. That’s when I said screw it and started chasing performance instead. I am so glad I did!
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Hello everone,
I have a question about loosing weight strategy. I am following ssbhv 1 plan and also want to loose 5 kg. So i use fitness pal and choose 0,5 kg loose per week. So i need to take about 1750 caloris per day. And also i need to fuel for hard workout as well. For example today i am going to do wright peak -2 (which is 3x30 mins 85%) and i will burn 1600 caloris approximately. So do you think i ate well for today? I ate 1.400 caloris surplus and 2 hours later i will do the workout and do not consume any caloris during and i will burn 1600 caloris. I ate too much but i will burn them i think. But i do not sure wherher it is true or no?
P.s: i am 79 kg with 1.88 cm height rider. (298 ftp)
Edit: sorry for language in the pic. It’s Turkish.
Hedef= goal or aim
Yemek= consumed food
Egzersiz= workout, burned caloris