@djwalker1260 I’d agree. They’ve helped to force the market and ecosystem to innovate, change, adapt, but for their own products the reliability has dropped and they’ve stretched themselves thin. I appreciate that and what they’ve done but will likely try out a Garmin bike computer to see what it’s like. I’m already in the Garmin ecosystem otherwise, so why not. I would say I feel that Wahoo’s software release schedule and quality is ahead of the Karoo though. Karoo is pretty much fixed on the whole 2 week thing, even when there’s substantial regressions while Wahoo will push out things whenever.
btw, I don’t think this is a technology limitation, but rather a choice. They choose to allow you to increase or decrease the fields you display in real time versus the ability to page backwards. Personally, I think the expanding/shrinking screen is the best feature they have and the only reason I would pick them again. Regardless, I’m going Garmin next time. Widgets are where it’s at.
I’d like a back button, too. But I have mostly solved this by using the Zoom feature and (de)activating pages. I have one page for indoor training, two for road rides, two for commutes/mountain bike rides and a map. Typically, only 3–5 pages are activated at a time.
The pages are designed for progressive disclosure, and I make sure that lower-tier fields on my road power page and my road heart rate page (for endurance rides) show complementary information.
To be fair, my Bryton Rider 330 has the exact same “data screens cycle one-way-only” issue. I always miss the screen I want, then have to hit 4-5 times to try again on the next round. Good UX on small devices is a difficult problem, but I’m always shocked at just how bad bike computer manufacturers are the job. From Garmin to Stages to Bryton, I’ve been disappointed by them all. There are bits of hardware that I would buy again in a split second, but with bike electronics… nothing has earned my loyalty yet.
It is really a difficult problem, because I don’t think Wahoo could have put more buttons on the device. Just like most other bike computers, they have three primary buttons on the front.
Wahoo’s idea to be able to zoom in an out alleviates the issue to a significant degree for me. Even if I could go back and forth when changing screens, I don’t think the UI works well if I have >5 screens set up.
With a touch screen you might solve that — under perfect circumstances. When my hands are sweaty and/or I am wearing gloves, touch screens often are not responsive (even if I had gone for a Garmin, I am 95 % sure I would have gotten a 530 and not an 830 or 1030 at the time).
I hear you, and it’s one of the reasons I used to use a Bolt and a Roam. I was really worried about going back to Garmin with the touch screens, but I’ve never had a problem with the 1030 or 1030+ with short finger gloves, and the new generation of touch friendly full finger gloves work great too. I’m sure there are people who’ve had issues, but I haven’t.
This is one of the only things I miss with Garmin, the Wahoo zoom in/out is great for old or tired eyes.
I don’t have first-hand experience other than playing around with the units under ideal conditions. But my thinking is that Garmin’s touch screen and touch technology can’t be better than Apple’s. When I leave sweat or some other liquid on screen, my iPhone’s touchscreen becomes unreliable. Very often, it’ll work 80–90 % of the time, but the 10–20 % are still no bueno.
Not just for the eyes, but you can focus on what is important. My power zone chart is not important enough to be on screen all the time, but with one or two clicks of a button I can check whether I have been a good boy or a naughty boy …
PS I should probably add that having a touchscreen in addition to physical buttons is probably my preferred solution. That’d solve a lot of UI/UX problems. Also, I’d probably not mind moving to Garmin — if they had Wahoo’s Zoom feature. Otherwise, I reckon I’d have to have more screens on a Garmin than on a Wahoo to get the same functionality.
Yes, for me that’s it. I have been a Zwift subscriber and am currently an RGT subscriber, but still have a Zwift account. Zwift has a free tier, which I found by accident, you get something like 24 km per month. So I still jump on there occasionally.
On my first Zwift ride I noticed immediately the presence of all these avatars, which represent real people, had a big impact. This surprised me. I felt like I was “with” other people, and even some peer pressure to not slack off. On RGT roads its pretty rare that I see another real rider, many bots but only a handful of real people scattered over the course. It feels rather lonely compared to Zwift. This would make a good research topic for a sports sociologist, if such a field exists.
RGT is really for racing, and the physics there are much better than Zwift. However nearly all the people racing there would be A and B level on Zwift, I am a D or on a good day a C. So when I join a race I get to enjoy that superior physics for a few minutes then I’m off the back. Sometimes if there are enough people (rare) I can join a little gruppeto and hang with them longer.
Why do I stick with RGT? Well because I like having the option of doing Sufferfest or some of the other offerings on SYSTM occasionally. I also find RGT’s “real road” graphics slightly more compelling than Zwifts.
Just looking at the way Wahoo has done things, it feels like they are very often creating features or products that no one really asked for… in which they then couldn’t deliver something of value.
Kickr
Don’t have the Kickr Core be the same as the Wahoo Kickr. You cannot charge 2x as much for the same hardware and then think majority will get it.
Would be much smarter to have the electromagnetic hardware from the Kickr Bike as the top end Kickr, then have the flywheel version for the Core.
Elemnt
Don’t get me started on the lost opportunities here… larger screen, more colors, larger batteries, customisable sounds etc.
They again made it impossible to actually find a good reason to upgrade, the last meaningful upgrade was the original ROAM and then Bolt V1 to V2…
Had they been smart with the new ROAM, they would’ve made it a competitor to the 1040. They already have the amazing software, just smack a bigger screen and battery on it, and maybe tweak some UI to make use of the big screen and viola.
Kickr Bike
Good, have one really high end device (I love mine), just make it reliable…
Tickr
Do the basics right, see these as the entry port to the rest of the devices. But buying something that breaks in a few weeks will make people scared to get the more expensive products from the same company.
Rollr
… yeah no.
Get the right people
Do the market research (this is what they are missing, and so many other companies)
Get customer insights, this is not testing your devices, this is getting insight on actual customer needs
Do the UX
Do the engineering
Test, test, test, test, test
Hopefully release
Don’t skip 1 and 2, because thats how you get the Rollr… Or 5, because thats how you get the Tickr, or 3, because thats how you get Garmin
Just wanted to add a quick comment re: strategies, etc….sometimes it is perfectly OK ( even desirable) to be a strong #2 player in the category.
There have been lots of comments about targeting Garmin or Zwift or “name the category leader”….if you can identify an unserved, but significant, part of the market, you can carve out a nice chunk of market space for yourself.
IMO, this appears to be Wahoo’s strategy with their computers, etc. There were a lot of people who were unsatisfied with Garmin units () and their feature / want list matched nicely with Wahoo’s offering.
For others, RGT / Sufferfest fits their needs for training platforms….no interest in big groups of people, they like the “suffer or die” mentality, etc.
The old Avis “We’re #2 but we try harder” strategy can be a great business strategy…when properly employed. I think Wahoo was there for awhile, but may have lost the plot and tried to stretch to go after the market leaders.
If anyone is reading this as one of the laid off folks from Wahoo or Strava or others, (or knows one), and you want to come work for free until my company makes money, DM me.
Specifically could make great use of another SWE.
Context:
We’re a consumer SaaS startup for fueling endurance performance. Launching in January. Well-tested. Lots of happy users. Our lead engineer is talented and excellent to work with. I make no claims regarding how enjoyable I am to work with, but can promise there will be no shortage of obsession.
Which Garmin has had for years and music, spotify, connection to power meters, trainer control etc… I thought this thread was about wahoo not Apple vs Garmin???
Garmin’s remote is a great option to consider for changing screens mid-ride. I have mine mounted on the inside of the right hood. A simple touch of the button with my right thumb advances screens and a slightly longer touch/hold reverses screens.
) and their feature / want list matched nicely with Wahoo’s offering.
