I didn’t realize @davidtinker had added this in - that’s awesome!
Agree - this view makes so much more sense to me (100 CTL/120 ATL and 40 CTL/60 ATL lead to the same TSB, but come on, that’s such a different situation)
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I do not know what is a “good” number, as I do not know what good number for FTP or any other parameter describing somebody ability is. Stamina is 1-100÷, and according to authors most individuals falls into 75-85% so then you have to judge yourself what “good” number is.
I’m not sure that the WKO stamina is exactly what we’re looking for. That seems to be resistance to fatigue at sub-threshold levels on single rides.
What we’re looking for is a metric describing the volume of work you can absorb over a period of weeks without burning out or other adverse effects - that takes into account your training history, not just your current training load.
FWIW I think a bit of common sense and a rough rule of thumb is probably the way to go: e.g. “take your current CTL and the highest CTL you’ve achieved in the last year, and split the difference.”
I was only answering about “deep fitness” metric and ftp part of discussion. Sorry I didn’t quote and have introduced unimportant insight.
Ah yeah, the subject kind of branched out!
Now that’s interesting, I’ve just changed to this new way of looking at this and in the period where I did the first 10 stages of Our Giro on RGT i was constantly in the green zone (apart from a brief blip of a TSB of -32 at lowest point) but when i swapped the the percentage method for most of that period i was in the red. This does make sense as it was very tough going and I was feeling it.
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Do you think it is as simple as TSB on day X divided by CTL on day X? I run my own spreadsheet with the usual metrics and despite my CTL and ATL being comparable (within a point) when comparing my icu data to my sheet the percentages are a fair bit different.
Just to be clear, the calculations are as follows:
TSB or Form (standard) = CTL - ATL
TSB or Form (% method) = ((CTL - ATL) / CTL)*100
I think that was what you were saying, but worth checking! Note that in icu, CTL is “fitness” and ATL is “fatigue”.
Yes, I’ve no doubt that’s the source of the error, I’ll redo my formula. Thanks.
The calendar sync is very revealing. I’ve plugged in SSBMV1 and 2, Sustained Power Build MV and a 40K Speciality MV and my CTL never gets above what it is now (64) and there is very little time spent in the green optimal zone.
Yes I realise it’s not all about constantly ramping up CTL, just an observation.
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You can also look at the intensity which might tell you more about those plans (I don’t know them myself). Intervals.icu will calculate this from training load and duration for planned workouts. You can add a custom chart to the fitness page and put chronic intensity load on it.
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I did not. I’ve never had TSB line up with performance for me. I actually fail more TR workouts with a positive TSB!
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I genuinely have no idea what all that means. Thankfully my bike is a simple machine ridden by a Complex but possibly dumb person. I was just browsing the forum.
You could argue that given the design of the training plans they don’t need to ever talk about TSB. If I plan forward with a build medium volume and look at my intervals.icu PMC I can see that I never get into negative territory on absolute value but do eventually dip into the green zone towards the end.
Thanks for all of your contributions to this, it’s made me think about my progression in a very different.
Thanks, that’s interesting When the poor weather returns towards the end of the year I think I’ll run some plans and see where the TSB goes for me and how my FTP reacts. If I get a solid summer I’ll just dive in with a power build plan straight off.
Thanks again.
When looking at TSB, I typically hit somewhere around -15 to -20 at the end of my last training week before a rest week. Naturally, the rest week will raise my TSB to something closer to 0 at the end, but I’m curious if we should be at 0 or even a positive TSB when we start our next block of training?